Great Yarmouth to Lowestoft

Thanks MI - I'll look in to it.

Croc - I appreciate your view and almost subscribe to it. Just the practicalities that I have to consider.

Thanks Sixpence, PM sent. Really appreciate the offer....


On another note does anyone have recommendations for charts?
It's a pain that the small craft folio for GY and Lowestoft is attached to the wash/north not the East Coast foilo.

I was looking at the Admiralty 1535 (Lowesoft Approaches) Which has GY on the edge... or at much larger scale 1543 (Winterton Ness to Orford Ness) or Imray C28.
 
Little Rascal said:
Thanks MI - I'll look in to it.

Croc - I appreciate your view and almost subscribe to it. Just the practicalities that I have to consider.

Thanks Sixpence, PM sent. Really appreciate the offer....


On another note does anyone have recommendations for charts?
It's a pain that the small craft folio for GY and Lowestoft is attached to the wash/north not the East Coast foilo.

I was looking at the Admiralty 1535 (Lowesoft Approaches) Which has GY on the edge... or at much larger scale 1543 (Winterton Ness to Orford Ness) or Imray C28.
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I have the two folios for the area and live in Upwell, you're welcome to borrow whatever you need. That said, not sure if you really need charts for such a short and simple trip, it's only 6 miles in a straight line ?
 
PaulGooch said:
I have the two folios for the area and live in Upwell, you're welcome to borrow whatever you need. That said, not sure if you really need charts for such a short and simple trip, it's only 6 miles in a straight line ?
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Thanks Paul, that's another very kind offer. I'll probably buy the chart though - then I can scribble on them! Cheers... Jon
 
My charts are on long term loan from someone on here, scribbled all over by myself now, but as they're fixed under a plastic sheet where they can't move the marks aren't on the actual charts ;)
Taking Paul up on his offer will save a bit towards other kit which you're likely to need long term, rather than just a short trip :cool:
 
Despite my banging on about the importance of a VHF I thnk I am with Paul,,,do you really need a chart? It is a very simple voyage.
You come out of the river at Gt Y and turn right and keep 150m offshore.
The main landmark for LT is a bloody great windmill ( known locally as Gulliver)by the Ness....I think the most easterly point of the UK.
When you get to Gulliver you are nearly there.
No natural hazards on the way....can get a bit choppy off the Ness...but only for 300 yards or so. I am assuming you will not be making the trip in a very strong onshore wind which would make everything much nastier.
Keep out the 150 m from the rocks and concrete along the shore and when you get the green light to enter the Outer Harbour at Lowestoft come straight in at right angles to the coast. Come in with some speed and aim for the middle of the entrance and do not slow up until you are safely inside....at most states of the tide there is a strong current flowing past the harbour entrance.
In former times it was quite dramatic as the local trawlers returning from a long trip to Iceland or elsewhere entered the harbour...little slowed their progress to home and beauty. Nowadays there are fast windcats travelling in and out of the harbour but they are rather better behaved than the old trrawlermen.
 
Croc said:
<snip>Come in with some speed and aim for the middle of the entrance and do not slow up until you are safely inside....at most states of the tide there is a strong current flowing past the harbour entrance.<snip>
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We called at Lowestoft in Jan this year, on our way from Shotley to Wisbech. The mobo in front of us had one engine stuck astern, so had switched it off, he looked to be struggling a bit in the current. I had to apply a good handful of throttle to counter the current. If i was in a sailboat with only a few HP available i think i'd take a run at it, as fast as i could go, especially on a Spring tide.
 
I've sailed into the entrance without using an engine a couple of times and it's not a major problem although in fairness each time was in reasonable weather.
Don't forget the formality of calling the HM to ask permission.
If you want to gather your thoughts, on the starboard side just inside the entrance you'll find a large pool with plenty of room.
 
I have been sailing in and out of Lowestoft for forty years in dinghies , keelboats and occasionally with motorboats....it is not difficult but the entrance is better taken with alacrity....hesitation is not advised. Pick the middle and go in with way on and it is straightforward.
 
Ok, thanks for the local info. I've been looking at the charts here and it does seem to be pretty straightforward.

I don't think the tides on the entrance will be a problem, we are small but manouverable and not underpowered - 7 knots easily.


In fact if the weather is any good we might look at continuing down to Southwold or the Orwell.... Any local info on Southwold would be welcome?

Thanks
Jon
 
Ah...once you get South of Lowestoft you need to be more careful and use up-to-date charts and keep an eye on your echo sounder
There are sandbanks that virtually dry out and on which waves break causing tricky conditions so should be avoided.
Southwold is a lovely spot but the timing has to be right for an uneventful entrance and departure... read up about this.
The Orwell is a lovely river and fairly straightforward once you are in but the entrance is busy with shipping... cargo ships and ferries... going in and out of Ipswich, Felixstowe and Harwich. The approaches from the North have banks that have to be respected and the Orford Ness area can very unpleasant.
None of this is unmanageable but should be approached with much more caution than the simple jolly south between Gt Y and LT.
 
Croc said:
Ah...once you get South of Lowestoft you need to be more careful and use up-to-date charts and keep an eye on your echo sounder
There are sandbanks that virtually dry out and on which waves break causing tricky conditions so should be avoided.
Southwold is a lovely spot but the timing has to be right for an uneventful entrance and departure... read up about this.
The Orwell is a lovely river and fairly straightforward once you are in but the entrance is busy with shipping... cargo ships and ferries... going in and out of Ipswich, Felixstowe and Harwich. The approaches from the North have banks that have to be respected and the Orford Ness area can very unpleasant.
None of this is unmanageable but should be approached with much more caution than the simple jolly south between Gt Y and LT.
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+1
 
Little Rascal said:
Ok, thanks for the local info. I've been looking at the charts here and it does seem to be pretty straightforward.

I don't think the tides on the entrance will be a problem, we are small but manouverable and not underpowered - 7 knots easily.


In fact if the weather is any good we might look at continuing down to Southwold or the Orwell.... Any local info on Southwold would be welcome?

Thanks
Jon
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Do bear in mind that in addition to what's already been said, Orford is around 25 nm and the Orwell entrance is about 40 nm. You sure your boat will do "7 knots easily" ? Seems a bit optimistic to me. Neither trip should be lightly undertaken and i'd say a VHF and up to date charts are an absolute must.

Unlike a quick "nip" from GY to Lowestoft, either Orford or the Orwell should be treated as serious sea trips and planned carefully.
 
Jon, am I mistaken in thinking this is one of your first tidal trips ?, if so I apologise, if not, then please take note of the comments already made. That proposed trip is one hell of a site different to the short hop, and even on that, if you attempt entry or departure at the wrong state of tide you run the risk of coming seriously unstuck. My last trip on my boat I had a good friend with me who took control at my request after I lost my nerve on the previous trip. Going back in at the wrong state of tide was like riding out a F8 with no room to change course, by the time my feet hit the pontoon I was shaking like a leaf.
Had to look cool though, not manly to admit the experience caused the bum to twitch :D
I've watched Ken with his 10HP trying to run into the tide at full throttle, going backwards :eek:
He did the cool thing too though :D
The passage you're proposing is a hell of a lot different to the hop, and needs far more careful planning. Charts are essential, depth gauge is a must, VHF and mobile phone as backup vital.
You don't want to do Orford Ness overfalls at the wrong time :o
And that's only one of the problems that could prove to be your downfall.
One step at a time is my suggestion, and I'm not even a seasoned sailor :eek:
 
Sixpence said:
Jon, am I mistaken in thinking this is one of your first tidal trips ?
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Thanks for the responses.

I am aware that doing Southwold or the Orwell would be a full on passage compared to the run between GY and Lowesoft. I wasn't in any way thinking it would be just another little hop!

This isn't my first tidal sailing but it will be the first time I take this boat to sea. I've been sailing dinghies and trailer sailers for 18 years (I'm not 30 yet :D) mostly inland (Rutland, Windermere) but I have done some coastal pottering in Cornwall and N. Wales, plus years of full on seakayaking (including 2 yrs in Shetland, where I also crewed on a 68ft fifie - the Swan) I've done the Day Skipper shorebased, but I would say my head knowledge (for what it's worth) is approaching Yachtmaster - I read quite a lot :rolleyes:

It's ironic but most of my experience of 'what the sea can do' is in a kayak. F8 gusts and 10 foot swells off Skye, playing in various tide races and exploring 'ironbound' cliffs in atlantic rollers has built a healthy respect for places/conditions I'd rather not go in a yacht! But the ability to read the surface and understand what's underneath counts for something I suppose.

So I would say I'm not a novice but cautiously looking to extend my experience. I haven't sailed on the East Coast. I want to move into doing passages where I have to start navigating properly.

The boat is a Hunter Europa - small but a proven track record as a good sea boat for her size (19ft) She's quick too! My comment "7 knots easily" was referring to under full throttle from the OB in flat water. It's only a 3.3 Yamaha Malta but the boat is light and easily driven. In waves that speed would be optimistic. My passage planning speed would be more like 4 or maybe 5 knots with appropriate wind.

I've pushed the boat pretty hard and she's very confidence inspiring - solid force 7 on Rutland no problem. But I have yet to see what she (and I) can handle in terms of sea state. I've been fitting out the boat which so far has been used on lakes so it had no electronics. I've added compass, sounder and gps. VHF is on the list. I wasn't really expecting to take her to sea this year, hence the Broads trip - but the purpose of the original post was to see if we could sneak a taste of salt anyway! I think the 'hop' as planned will be doable... To take her down to Southwold will mean spending a bit more money on her and getting here properly ready for sea. But the likelihood is, if we can do that this year, we will just trail her down to the Orwell and spend a week or two around Harwich and the Walton Backwaters.

Anyway that's the Bio! I do appreciate your comments and opinions... I have little frame of reference for the East Coast - I can see the navigational challenges (theoretically) but I appreciate the check of experiece/local knowledge on my plans.

Thanks
Jon
 
Is a Hunter Europa a "Squib with a lid" ?
Lots of Squibs in the area...tough little boats and great in heavy seas....much more seaworthy than the bigger more glamorous Dragons that used to be sailed round here.
So the boat will be alright and you seem to know more about what you are doing than you let on initially....I think you will probably survive... but should still get a VHF.
 
Hi Phoenix, how do?


Croc said:
Is a Hunter Europa a "Squib with a lid" ?
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That's the one :)

Croc said:
Lots of Squibs in the area...tough little boats and great in heavy seas....much more seaworthy than the bigger more glamorous Dragons that used to be sailed round here.
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That's why I bought it :D
This is my second Hunter - I had a 490 before. A Hunter 19, Willing Griffin did the Transat in 1972. With the small self-draining cockpit, the Europa is even more seaworthy than the Squib. There's not much room inside but she sails like a witch...
 
Jon you are absolutely correct to point out time spent sea kayaking in tidal races and amongst the clapotis that is experienced closer in shore. Reading the water and understanding eddies and overfalls is essential and sounds like you have bagged lots of experience.
I will often draw upon my experience gained at sea in a kayak from The Swellies, CoryVrekkan and the Bitches it all counts.
Sounds like you are preparing well and considering all options.
Like many who have responded my experience of the Orford bar has been awe inspiring, for several years it was our shake down cruise as we stored our Evolution 25 at Peter's boatyard up at Slaughden.
Being a trailer sailer you have absolutely the best option too and enjoy great trips without the stress of having to cover distances to make a tidal gateway.
The first time we did a Nth Sea crossing as we hit Oost-dyck West Hinder negotiating the swellies and whirlpools needed careful navigating. I felt at home having sat in the Menai Straits for hours having fun.
The key is to draw on ones experience to make sensible decisions keeping crew and craft safe.
Have a great time whatever you choose, it's out there for the taking.
 
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