Sailfree
Well-Known Member
Re: Gone mad ?? (It\'s about a Bavaria)
Are you going to do anything about the lack of siphon breaks to the heads?
Are you going to do anything about the lack of siphon breaks to the heads?
Gone mad ?? (It's about a Bavaria)
- Thread starter Abel
- Start date
Sailfree
Well-Known Member
Re: Gone mad ?? (It\'s about a Bavaria)
Lets get the ball rolling. What was the respective costs of a Bavaria 42 say 5 years ago and a HR42 5 years ago. What will each one fetch now?
I Know we mostly buy what we can afford but I would like to understand better what are the true ownership costs including loss of income on the cost difference.
Lets get the ball rolling. What was the respective costs of a Bavaria 42 say 5 years ago and a HR42 5 years ago. What will each one fetch now?
I Know we mostly buy what we can afford but I would like to understand better what are the true ownership costs including loss of income on the cost difference.
Seven Spades
Well-Known Member
Re: Gone mad ?? (It\'s about a Bavaria)
Bavaria 42 2000/1 £100000 not chartered, I don't know the new cost.
HR42 £240,000 again, not sure of new costs.
Bavaria 42 2000/1 £100000 not chartered, I don't know the new cost.
HR42 £240,000 again, not sure of new costs.
G
Guest
Guest
Re: Gone mad ?? (It\'s about a Bavaria)
Obviously it depends a lot on whether you're buying from new etc. Assuming you're buying secondhand, I think that the Bavaria will probably still work out a bit cheaper despite the fact that it is probably going to depreciate faster.
An even more attractive option financially is to use the money to buy a holiday cottage. The only problem is, it will sail like a brick [--word removed--]-house.
Obviously it depends a lot on whether you're buying from new etc. Assuming you're buying secondhand, I think that the Bavaria will probably still work out a bit cheaper despite the fact that it is probably going to depreciate faster.
An even more attractive option financially is to use the money to buy a holiday cottage. The only problem is, it will sail like a brick [--word removed--]-house.
Abel
New Member
Re: Gone mad ?? (It\'s about a Bavaria)
[ QUOTE ]
Are you going to do anything about the lack of siphon breaks to the heads?
[/ QUOTE ]
Bavaria get around this with a nice big sign telling you to close the seacock!
It only needs one on the intake as the outlet is directly into the holding tank. It's on the list, but for now everyone is instructed about the seacocks.
[ QUOTE ]
Are you going to do anything about the lack of siphon breaks to the heads?
[/ QUOTE ]
Bavaria get around this with a nice big sign telling you to close the seacock!
It only needs one on the intake as the outlet is directly into the holding tank. It's on the list, but for now everyone is instructed about the seacocks.
Seven Spades
Well-Known Member
Re: Gone mad ?? (It\'s about a Bavaria)
Can you explain some more. What is the difference between Bav heads and others, and what about their sea cocks, don't all boats have sea cocks on their outlets?
Can you explain some more. What is the difference between Bav heads and others, and what about their sea cocks, don't all boats have sea cocks on their outlets?
Re: Gone mad ?? (It\'s about a Bavaria)
[ QUOTE ]
What is the difference between Bav heads and others, and what about their sea cocks, don't all boats have sea cocks on their outlets?
[/ QUOTE ]
Are you are questioning why there is no need to close the outlet seacock to avoid a back siphon risk? If so the answer is that the holding tank is vented and in its position above the seacock and toilet it performs as a giant siphon break.
[ QUOTE ]
What is the difference between Bav heads and others, and what about their sea cocks, don't all boats have sea cocks on their outlets?
[/ QUOTE ]
Are you are questioning why there is no need to close the outlet seacock to avoid a back siphon risk? If so the answer is that the holding tank is vented and in its position above the seacock and toilet it performs as a giant siphon break.
Twister_Ken
Well-Known Member
Re: Gone mad ?? (It\'s about a Bavaria)
Should I ever need a broken siphon, for a giant, I'll know where to look.
As an aside, it does seem that AWBs may be improving, in the sailing sense. I wonder whether criticism in places like this has helped improve the breed?
Should I ever need a broken siphon, for a giant, I'll know where to look.
As an aside, it does seem that AWBs may be improving, in the sailing sense. I wonder whether criticism in places like this has helped improve the breed?
Sans Bateau
Well-Known Member
Re: Gone mad ?? (It\'s about a Bavaria)
[ QUOTE ]
As an aside, it does seem that AWBs may be improving, in the sailing sense. I wonder whether criticism in places like this has helped improve the breed?
[/ QUOTE ]
Constant feed back from car owners and the desire to maintain market share has seen the average car be transformed from a car that had a sunroof and elec windows as the height of luxury, to what we have today were the most basic car has every conceivable bell and whistle fitted! So yes.
Manufactures stand still at your peril!
[ QUOTE ]
As an aside, it does seem that AWBs may be improving, in the sailing sense. I wonder whether criticism in places like this has helped improve the breed?
[/ QUOTE ]
Constant feed back from car owners and the desire to maintain market share has seen the average car be transformed from a car that had a sunroof and elec windows as the height of luxury, to what we have today were the most basic car has every conceivable bell and whistle fitted! So yes.
Manufactures stand still at your peril!
Oen
Well-Known Member
Re: Gone mad ?? (It\'s about a Bavaria)
I've just spent a couple of days on a Bav 46...
Conclusions:
You DO get what you pay for.
The Bav sailed OK, and has some good kit (Volvo engine, decent-ish sails and rig).
The construction of the hull - where I could look at it - seemed OK.
There are a lot of niggles - poor bits of design which really should have been done better.
The general quality of the interior fittings is very much lower than on other yots. Clearly a lot of money saved here. The veneer is particularly ugly.
So, great value for money if you're happy to compromise quality for owning a new boat. That said, there are so many of them on the Solent that I can't help thinking the depreciation will be shocking!
My budget would have bought me a big-ish new Bav. I'm very happy with my slightly older Beneteau, which I believe is a lot more boat for the same money.
I've just spent a couple of days on a Bav 46...
Conclusions:
You DO get what you pay for.
The Bav sailed OK, and has some good kit (Volvo engine, decent-ish sails and rig).
The construction of the hull - where I could look at it - seemed OK.
There are a lot of niggles - poor bits of design which really should have been done better.
The general quality of the interior fittings is very much lower than on other yots. Clearly a lot of money saved here. The veneer is particularly ugly.
So, great value for money if you're happy to compromise quality for owning a new boat. That said, there are so many of them on the Solent that I can't help thinking the depreciation will be shocking!
My budget would have bought me a big-ish new Bav. I'm very happy with my slightly older Beneteau, which I believe is a lot more boat for the same money.
Chris_Robb
Well-Known Member
Re: Gone mad ?? (It\'s about a Bavaria)
sailed a 38 holiday - what a pig - rounds up in the gusts and was really crap to steer down wind (F5) would not like to be opnboard if it was blowing. Great in lite winds - not for me
sailed a 38 holiday - what a pig - rounds up in the gusts and was really crap to steer down wind (F5) would not like to be opnboard if it was blowing. Great in lite winds - not for me
Sailfree
Well-Known Member
Re: Gone mad ?? (It\'s about a Bavaria)
A 2000/1 HR42 for £240000 secondhand now, Anyone know what the price was in 2000/1 when new?
A 2000/1 HR42 for £240000 secondhand now, Anyone know what the price was in 2000/1 when new?
zefender
Well-Known Member
veneer and interior fittings = \"quality\"?
"So, great value for money if you're happy to compromise quality for owning a new boat"
It may simply be that veneers and other interior fittings are not the major determinants of a quality boat - to everybody. Buy a MAB and get generally, less living/sleeping/cooking space, less speed but more seakindliness and probably deeper bilges ( /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif) Every choice is a trade off and a lack of decent joinery may not per se make a 'quality' boat
"So, great value for money if you're happy to compromise quality for owning a new boat"
It may simply be that veneers and other interior fittings are not the major determinants of a quality boat - to everybody. Buy a MAB and get generally, less living/sleeping/cooking space, less speed but more seakindliness and probably deeper bilges ( /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif) Every choice is a trade off and a lack of decent joinery may not per se make a 'quality' boat
Sans Bateau
Well-Known Member
Re: Gone mad ?? (It\'s about a Bavaria)
With all these differing views, it would be good to have a selection of forum members, representing different sailing boats, to sail as a crew a selection of Bavarias. For instance, a 34, a 37 and a 42. Both in deep and short keel version.
It would be interesting to listen to the analysis of the exercise.
Come on YM you can arrange it, Opal are buddies of yours!
With all these differing views, it would be good to have a selection of forum members, representing different sailing boats, to sail as a crew a selection of Bavarias. For instance, a 34, a 37 and a 42. Both in deep and short keel version.
It would be interesting to listen to the analysis of the exercise.
Come on YM you can arrange it, Opal are buddies of yours!
Abel
New Member
Re: Gone mad ?? (It\'s about a Bavaria)
In my original post I wasn't saying it was better than anything, I was trying to say, "actually they're not that bad at all". They've cut corners sure, but overall I think it's good value for money = to say a Beneteau at less cost. I looked at the Beneteau Cyclades and it looked awful. Liked the Beneteau 423 but it came to 60k more. As to the wood, have a look on a new one, it's fine. I've got 2 kids and paying £100K for a beautiful handmade interior would have ended in divorce. /forums/images/graemlins/smirk.gif
In my original post I wasn't saying it was better than anything, I was trying to say, "actually they're not that bad at all". They've cut corners sure, but overall I think it's good value for money = to say a Beneteau at less cost. I looked at the Beneteau Cyclades and it looked awful. Liked the Beneteau 423 but it came to 60k more. As to the wood, have a look on a new one, it's fine. I've got 2 kids and paying £100K for a beautiful handmade interior would have ended in divorce. /forums/images/graemlins/smirk.gif
Sans Bateau
Well-Known Member
Re: Gone mad ?? (It\'s about a Bavaria)
I agree with what you say and hence my last post.
I agree with what you say and hence my last post.
Abel
New Member
Re: Gone mad ?? (It\'s about a Bavaria)
[ QUOTE ]
I agree with what you say and hence my last post.
[/ QUOTE ]
Sorry clicked on wrong reply, I was replying to the posts above yours.
[ QUOTE ]
I agree with what you say and hence my last post.
[/ QUOTE ]
Sorry clicked on wrong reply, I was replying to the posts above yours.
Re: Gone mad ?? (It\'s about a Bavaria)
[ QUOTE ]
The veneer is particularly ugly.
[/ QUOTE ]
This is a subjective call, if the Bav was more than a year old then you were looking at that dark banded veneer style as favoured in the Baltic and evident in LMs and Dehlers.
The high gloss Benny cherry veneer looks superb but at 5 years it begins to break down in patches and then the overall effect is truly spoilt.
[ QUOTE ]
The veneer is particularly ugly.
[/ QUOTE ]
This is a subjective call, if the Bav was more than a year old then you were looking at that dark banded veneer style as favoured in the Baltic and evident in LMs and Dehlers.
The high gloss Benny cherry veneer looks superb but at 5 years it begins to break down in patches and then the overall effect is truly spoilt.
Re: Gone mad ?? (It\'s about a Bavaria)
[ QUOTE ]
sailed a 38 holiday - what a pig - rounds up in the gusts and was really crap to steer down wind (F5)
[/ QUOTE ]
But now you have shifted the comparison to the charter-oriented, stubby-keel, stubby-rudder, fat-arsed designs of the late 1990's.
The other AWB manufacturers committed far worse offences against real sailors in the same period.
[ QUOTE ]
sailed a 38 holiday - what a pig - rounds up in the gusts and was really crap to steer down wind (F5)
[/ QUOTE ]
But now you have shifted the comparison to the charter-oriented, stubby-keel, stubby-rudder, fat-arsed designs of the late 1990's.
The other AWB manufacturers committed far worse offences against real sailors in the same period.
Oen
Well-Known Member
Re: Gone mad ?? (It\'s about a Bavaria)
[ QUOTE ]
They've cut corners sure, but overall I think it's good value for money = to say a Beneteau at less cost
[/ QUOTE ]
Sorry, I have to disagree completely. My Beneteau (First 42s7) is in a completely different class to the Bav 46...
[ QUOTE ]
They've cut corners sure, but overall I think it's good value for money = to say a Beneteau at less cost
[/ QUOTE ]
Sorry, I have to disagree completely. My Beneteau (First 42s7) is in a completely different class to the Bav 46...
