Going "vegi"??

STEVEDUNSTABLE

STEVEDUNSTABLE

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hi all...sorry if this has been covered before here, (i hav,nt seen it), but im interested in the "technical probs" of running my kad 32 on a 50/50 or 25/75 of vegatable oil to derv..obviously the oil has to be new or filtered,but what other probs would surface when burnt??...i have googled this subject, but i keep getting to the same conclusion, that it should cause no serious probs (other than the "pong")..ALL thoughts and ridicule wellcome........thanks "techies"..
 
STEVEDUNSTABLE said:
hi all...sorry if this has been covered before here, (i hav,nt seen it), but im interested in the "technical probs" of running my kad 32 on a 50/50 or 25/75 of vegatable oil to derv..obviously the oil has to be new or filtered,but what other probs would surface when burnt??...i have googled this subject, but i keep getting to the same conclusion, that it should cause no serious probs (other than the "pong")..ALL thoughts and ridicule wellcome........thanks "techies"..
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Steve, sounds great in practise but as I understand it the main downside is your S24 may end up looking a bit like this...

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STEVEDUNSTABLE said:
hi all...sorry if this has been covered before here, (i hav,nt seen it), but im interested in the "technical probs" of running my kad 32 on a 50/50 or 25/75 of vegatable oil to derv..obviously the oil has to be new or filtered,but what other probs would surface when burnt??...i have googled this subject, but i keep getting to the same conclusion, that it should cause no serious probs (other than the "pong")..ALL thoughts and ridicule wellcome........thanks "techies"..
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Just a reminder of the original question :)
(to which I have no answer)
 
I used to run a Landrover 300TDI Defender on 95% filtered used vegetable oil mixed with about 5% diesel and it ran very well indeed, i ran it like that for about 6K miles, I had to change the filters more often and when it was cold it needed a lot more heat to get it running but other than that there were no adverse affects except it stunk like a chip shop!!
 
If you google the bio-diesel sites you'll find a fair bit of info, most say you should add a bit of white spirit to the filtered, pre-enjoyed, chip oil, ISTR it was a pint to 5 gallons of oil.

Apparently it is only suitable for older designs of engine and your 2011 BMW common rail engine is not an ideal candidate for this diet!

Usual disclaimer, this advice is worth exactly what you've paid for it...

Lee B
 
OAF said:
I used to run a Landrover 300TDI Defender on 95% filtered used vegetable oil mixed with about 5% diesel and it ran very well indeed, i ran it like that for about 6K miles, I had to change the filters more often and when it was cold it needed a lot more heat to get it running but other than that there were no adverse affects except it stunk like a chip shop!!
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hi oaf.....AT LAST !!.....a proper response !...i asume you mean fuel filters?...i,ve red that its the meat fat from the cooking process that causes the main probs because it goes "thick" so if new oil was used would this remove that prob ??..ive also red that a mix of 50/50 with derv vertualy removes all the negatives of the possible side effects......thanks for your imput....ANY MORE THOUGHT N COMMENTS ??
 
El Bee said:
If you google the bio-diesel sites you'll find a fair bit of info, most say you should add a bit of white spirit to the filtered, pre-enjoyed, chip oil, ISTR it was a pint to 5 gallons of oil.

Apparently it is only suitable for older designs of engine and your 2011 BMW common rail engine is not an ideal candidate for this diet!

Usual disclaimer, this advice is worth exactly what you've paid for it...

Lee B
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HI el bee...as you say most of the sites talk about used oil, and your right about the white spirit but i cant seem to find anything concrete about new oil that is diluted with 50% or 75% derv...anyway thanks for your interest...............MORE PLEASE .....
 
I have twin KAD32's and I also have brother in law with a large fish and chip shop but I don't think I will be getting them to know each other!
He recently paid many thousands of pounds for a fancy filter machine that enables him to reuse the oil many times over. Even used oil costs money when he's completely finished with the oil he then sells it to a used oil company. Don't know what he gets for it but it must be reasonable otherwise he wouldn't bother.
 
Steve I first tried Veg oil in my Range Rover many years ago, when I went shopping I thought that cooking oil was a lot cheaper than fuel so I started off by buying a litre and adding it to my half empty tank of fuel as I was loading the shopping in to the boot, every time I went back to the shops I put an extra litre in to the tank until one day I needed a big trolley to get the stuff back to the car and yep you guessed it I put the lot in to the tank and filled it to the brim, the tank by then would have probably only had about a couple of gallons of diesel in it, the motor ran perfectly, so after that I used to run it on alternate tanks of diesel and oil, it seemed fine to me and I don't remember having any real problems.

I got fed up with with messing about buying it in bottles in the end, then i started to use old cooking fat, collected in large drums and i had a large filter plant in my workshop but i only put that in my Defender, eventually I got fed up with that and went back to good old fashioned diesel from the pump.
 
STEVEDUNSTABLE said:
hi all...sorry if this has been covered before here, (i hav,nt seen it), but im interested in the "technical probs" of running my kad 32 on a 50/50 or 25/75 of vegatable oil to derv..obviously the oil has to be new or filtered,but what other probs would surface when burnt??...i have googled this subject, but i keep getting to the same conclusion, that it should cause no serious probs (other than the "pong")..ALL thoughts and ridicule wellcome........thanks "techies"..
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I looked at this in some detail a couple of years ago. As I remember it:

You can either refine fat into diesel and run it straight in the tank as normal, or run the boat on neat fat. Used chip fat will do.

If you run it on neat fat, you need a second tank to start and stop on normal diesel.

To run on fat you just have to heat it to lower the viscosity. It is suitably lubricative and the cetane rating is similar.

If you use a lot of fat you have to pay tax on it if you want to be legal. Nearly impossible to police so if caught expect punitive penalties.

Bio stuff cleans the fuel system well and will block loads of filters at first, then improve.

There is a market in chip fat, the price varies with the price of diesel.

There are logistical issues with getting 100s of litres of fat to the boat. Safe, unlike petrol, but there are challenges to overcome.

I sourced an excellent chip fat conversion kit that used the engine cooling water to heat the fat in the filter. Another coil pre heated it slightly in the tank. A changeover switch sorted the normal diesel for start and stop. I also came up with a way of transporting 100 litres at a time along a pontoon and pumping it easily into the boat. I was going to sell the system.

Then the but..........

Automotive engines run well on bio diesel and fat, once the initial filter blocking phase is over.

However, engines running on fat are susceptible to glazed bores and thus loss of compression if run for long periods at the same speed. The hard black stuff that builds on your frying pan basically fills the micro grooves in the cylinder walls, which are necessary to hold oil and create a good seal with the piston rings. Car engines run at varying load, boat engines do not.

Thus I abandoned the idea......
 
STEVEDUNSTABLE said:
hi all...sorry if this has been covered before here, (i hav,nt seen it), but im interested in the "technical probs" of running my kad 32 on a 50/50 or 25/75 of vegatable oil to derv..obviously the oil has to be new or filtered,but what other probs would surface when burnt??...i have googled this subject, but i keep getting to the same conclusion, that it should cause no serious probs (other than the "pong")..ALL thoughts and ridicule wellcome........thanks "techies"..
Click to expand...

At first I actually doubted that this post was serious considering the screaming and shouting about propgating the fuel bug due to the small presence of FAME in virtually sulphur free diesel. Now somebody wants to stuff tanks full of it.

For a start Volvo official line is somthing like max of B15.

Not sure about your specific engine, however suspect you have Bosch VE fuel pump, remember FAME and water always go hand in hand. Factor in cost of a fuel pump rebuild as part of the plan if you want to use greater than B15, regardless of Volvo line, Bosch were never happy even with B15 on a VE pump.

FAME in pretty much any ratio is unsuitable as a marine fuel for all the reasons which have been beaten to death, most recently here on subject of keeping fuel tanks pressed up.

If fuel costs are making boating this marginal for you, perhaps it may be the time to give up the hobby.
 
Latestarter1 said:
At first I actually doubted that this post was serious considering the screaming and shouting about propgating the fuel bug due to the small presence of FAME in virtually sulphur free diesel. Now somebody wants to stuff tanks full of it.

For a start Volvo official line is somthing like max of B15.

Not sure about your specific engine, however suspect you have Bosch VE fuel pump, remember FAME and water always go hand in hand. Factor in cost of a fuel pump rebuild as part of the plan if you want to use greater than B15, regardless of Volvo line, Bosch were never happy even with B15 on a VE pump.

FAME in pretty much any ratio is unsuitable as a marine fuel for all the reasons which have been beaten to death, most recently here on subject of keeping fuel tanks pressed up.

If fuel costs are making boating this marginal for you, perhaps it may be the time to give up the hobby.
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to be clear, I did no research into electronic injectors, just the older mechanical types.

And you're right the manufacturers said "don't". There are still many thousands of diesel engines running on neat, unrefined veg oil.
 
Elessar said:
to be clear, I did no research into electronic injectors, just the older mechanical types.

And you're right the manufacturers said "don't". There are still many thousands of diesel engines running on neat, unrefined veg oil.
Click to expand...

From an injection shop perspective fine, a the carnage caused by use of FAME iin road and rail is good revenue for me.

Most manufacturers approve of up to 30%. And SOME tractor manufacturers will approve of B100 under certain strict conditions. Just saying that there are thousands of engines using the stuff does not make it OK. It would give engine manufacturer a huge competitive advantage, however they are rightly very cautious. You WILL compromise the life of a mechanical Bosch VE fuel pump rotor heads using more than 15% FAME, unrefined stuff, plain stoopid.

Common rail.........FAME can cause formation of crude form of plastic, the injector becomes a crude form of plastic extrusion machine making debris which block the injector.

Two issues here:

Engines and Fuel. Will engines take higher ratio of FAME than menufacturers recommend, you MAY get away with it, however one trip to the pump shop and any financial advantage goes up in smoke. Low temperature filter plugging is a real nausiea. Boating on the brink is plain unsafe, if you cannot afford to do it properly than give up the hobby.

Is FAME suitable or sensible as a marine fuel fuel.......Certainly not.
 
Latestarter1 said:
From an injection shop perspective fine, a the carnage caused by use of FAME iin road and rail is good revenue for me.

Most manufacturers approve of up to 30%. And SOME tractor manufacturers will approve of B100 under certain strict conditions. Just saying that there are thousands of engines using the stuff does not make it OK. It would give engine manufacturer a huge competitive advantage, however they are rightly very cautious. You WILL compromise the life of a mechanical Bosch VE fuel pump rotor heads using more than 15% FAME, unrefined stuff, plain stoopid.

Common rail.........FAME can cause formation of crude form of plastic, the injector becomes a crude form of plastic extrusion machine making debris which block the injector.

Two issues here:

Engines and Fuel. Will engines take higher ratio of FAME than menufacturers recommend, you MAY get away with it, however one trip to the pump shop and any financial advantage goes up in smoke. Low temperature filter plugging is a real nausiea. Boating on the brink is plain unsafe, if you cannot afford to do it properly than give up the hobby.

Is FAME suitable or sensible as a marine fuel fuel.......Certainly not.
Click to expand...

Steve, I think Latestarter has spoken. After reading (& enjoying) copious posts from LS I would never doubt a word he says on a technical level.

So keep filling up with proper diesel and just hide the receipts from SWMBO. :D
 
Interesting thread, from what I have smelt and driven the vehicles running round on pre used or fresh veg oil are older bangers used on local short trips and due to fail the next mot anyway so glazed bores/dodgy fuel pump not really an issue as the vehicle is getting close to disposable anyway.

I wouldnt want to try it in a boat engine where the boat is far from disposable.
 
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