Glow plug conversion for Volvo 2002?

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petergarth

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My 2500hr old 2002 is now unable to cold start without assistance. I'm not talking freezing temperatures just moderate ambient mild cold starts.
Compression is a little low but once warmed up she runs and restarts instantly.

I'm researching options to improve my cold starting problems without resorting to a complete engine removal and overhaul piston rings etc etc.

Tried all the cold start techniques and and still struggles to start.
In fact I now have to heat the intake (heat gun) to get it to kick over. Hence the glow plug idea.

I notice that the Volvo 2003 D has glow plugs but the 2002 does not.
Why not?
It seems like an easy conversion, the intake casting has inlets for the glow plugs as does the 2003D.
Is the design fundamentally different and as result glow plugs are not needed or possible to add?
The 2002 has a reputation for difficult cold starts and it seems illogical to have marketed this engine without glow plugs.

Any expert out there that can enlighten me?
 
petergarth said:
Tried all the cold start techniques and and still struggles to start.
Click to expand...

Just to double-check, because lots of people don't know it, the recommended cold start procedure is...
* put throttle lever to full
* pull out stop control fully
* push stop control back in
* crank engine
* when engine starts, reduce throttle setting.
 
petergarth said:
I notice that the Volvo 2003 D has glow plugs but the 2002 does not.
Why not?
It seems like an easy conversion, the intake casting has inlets for the glow plugs as does the 2003D.
Click to expand...

The 2003D (and indeed the 2001D and 2002D) had a glow plug. These versions were introduced right at the end of the 2000-series production run, in 1992. Production stopped in 1993.

The glow plug is available, but the adaptor which it fits in to is no longer available, so retro-fitting would be difficult.
 
petergarth said:
My 2500hr old 2002 is now unable to cold start without assistance. I'm not talking freezing temperatures just moderate ambient mild cold starts.
Compression is a little low but once warmed up she runs and restarts instantly.

I'm researching options to improve my cold starting problems without resorting to a complete engine removal and overhaul piston rings etc etc.

Tried all the cold start techniques and and still struggles to start.
In fact I now have to heat the intake (heat gun) to get it to kick over. Hence the glow plug idea.

I notice that the Volvo 2003 D has glow plugs but the 2002 does not.
Why not?
It seems like an easy conversion, the intake casting has inlets for the glow plugs as does the 2003D.
Is the design fundamentally different and as result glow plugs are not needed or possible to add?
The 2002 has a reputation for difficult cold starts and it seems illogical to have marketed this engine without glow plugs.

Any expert out there that can enlighten me?
Click to expand...
The basic question can be answered by the difference between direct and indirect injection. Normally individual glow plugs are fitted in the Ricardo chamber, indirect are near impossible to start without heat, exception being 1GM10. Note the difference with some road vehicles, some you have to wait for the light to extinguish, others will be on the key, again indirect and direct.
The issue with 2000 series can also be crank speed, ensure good connection on start cables. The heater you note is available on the 2003D but usually the orifice on the other 2003 models is not threaded but sealed with a core plug. The 2003 SOLAS is equiped with a massive heater that fastens between the head and air silencer. you may retrofit with an adaptor something like a Lister 327523 for example, there is also a bonfire version that introduces fuel into the heater causing a mini fire in the tract, known as a thermostart.
 
petergarth said:
Tried all the cold start techniques and and still struggles to start.
Click to expand...
Hello Peter and welcome to the forum

It might be helpful if you list all the cold start techniques you have used. I have a 37 year old VP 2002 of unknown hours that will happily start an ambient air temperature of -2 °C if I use the technique mentioned by @pvb.
 
Hi All and thank you for the input and welcome .
The cold start sequence described I have been using for past few years.
Even with this it takes a lot of cranking to get going but once running is perfectly normal.
Just recenly it refused to start.
I am about to remove the starter motor to have it serviced as I think it is not running at its old speed.
I saw on a parts site that the glowplug adapter is obsolete but I am sure one could fabricate a work around . That is the reason for asking about the use of glowplugs.
I did think of a short extension pipe on the air intake connection to the silencer to tap in a glowplug.
Knowing that the D engines later used plugs gives me some confidence this could work.
In the meantime I will have starter sorted .
Many thanks any other ideas welcome?
 
Check that the cold start ritual is actually delivering fuel to the injectors from the word 'go'.
 
In the spring and autumn times, mainly early springtime, I reverted to a blast in the air intake from a hot air gun. It didn't take long. Did this during the twenty odd years that I had the boat .

I had the 2001 engine which is tough, as it doesn't have an additional cylinder to help. As mentioned, it had a fitting on the intake for an electrical heater but I never bothered to buy one.
 
I have a 2001 which suffered from exactly the symptoms you describe - I fitted a thermostart in the air intake, as mentioned above, following some good advice from this forum. It has transformed cold starting performance - I'm certainly happy with it.
 
Some great thoughts here. A few questions:
1. Silly Q first: how do I check to see if the cold start is delivering fuel to the injectors? Crack off the injector connectors while going through the process?
2. there is a small round plastic cap on the intake silencer. Is this where you fitted an electric heater?
I have used a blow gun on the dock to start but obviously need something other than an electric heat source when off the dock cruising. This is why I am thinking of attaching a glow plug of sorts. My concern is this white cap is too far from the intake manifold to heat quickly. Hence the idea of an extension pipe of sorts at the silencer manifold connector flange?
3. When you used the (Perkins?) Thermostart glow plug did you connect a fuel line to it or simply heat the unit? If you fitted a fuel line does it need to be pressurised like the injectors? or simply fed from the lift pump or gravity fed?
Many thanks
Hope these make sense :)
 
petergarth said:
Some great thoughts here. A few questions:
1. Silly Q first: how do I check to see if the cold start is delivering fuel to the injectors? Crack off the injector connectors while going through the process?
2. there is a small round plastic cap on the intake silencer. Is this where you fitted an electric heater?
I have used a blow gun on the dock to start but obviously need something other than an electric heat source when off the dock cruising. This is why I am thinking of attaching a glow plug of sorts. My concern is this white cap is too far from the intake manifold to heat quickly. Hence the idea of an extension pipe of sorts at the silencer manifold connector flange?
3. When you used the (Perkins?) Thermostart glow plug did you connect a fuel line to it or simply heat the unit? If you fitted a fuel line does it need to be pressurised like the injectors? or simply fed from the lift pump or gravity fed?
Many thanks
Hope these make sense :)
Click to expand...
1. Fuel will always be at the injectors while cranking provided the stop is not invoked. The cold start procedure puts the system into an "overfuel" situation, bit like pulling the choke on a petrol engine. The difference in quantity will not be obvious.
2. No to the plastic cap. Off the harbour you could use a gas torch but would remove the air silencer whilst heating. Was the habit of some of the old seamen in days past lighting a piece of oily rag to heat the inlet! Yes, suggest aluminium billet machined and fitted tween manifold and air silencer.
3. 2 types of start aids, if you use the Perkins variety a drip feed from a remote can is fine, or plumb it into the diesel system. It is designed so fuel is only admitted whilst hot. Never seen nor experienced Perkins type being run dry, maybe could cause premature failure. If you do not want to mess with the fuel fit the Lister variety, google Lister 327523 for an example.
 
These engines benefit hugely from a decoke and a relapping of the valves, which will help with your lower compression. As said, an overhaul of the starter motor might also improve your lot to maximise cranking speed.
 
My old 2002 still struggled to start even with the cold start method. I bought an odyssey high cca battery, still turned over slowly, fitting a new starter motor did nothing to increase the speed, and a new fuel lift pump had no affect. Like a lot of people have said, it is just the first start of the day, Once running it went sweetly and started fine for the rest of the day.
A fellow club member had a 2002 and his started on the first turn of the key. Having no heaters they relied on extra fuel via the rack, and good compression to start.
He had stripped his down told me the slow starting was usually due to low compression, caused by worn piston rings, and glazed bores which meant that engine oil, which helps compression drains from the upper cylinders. Once oil had started to circulate compression increased and they usually fire up. Don't know if this is entirely true but it makes sense
I solved the starting problem by fitting a Beta 25
 
I was once told by a reputable marine engineer that the Volvo 2000 series tended to suffer from valve seat corrosion with consequent loss of compression and difficult cold starting. Correcting that would mean taking the head off but no need to tackle the lower end of the engine. My own VP 2002 was always an excellent starter but I believe that some previous owner had a top overhaul done after about 10 years as he ( wrongly) suspected a blown gasket.
 
I've had so many replies I'm trying to summarise my thoughts:

1. Fact: the compression is a bit low and as someone pointed out once warm the circulating oil increases the compression and so runs normally. Exactly my experience.
I accept that avoiding the basic compression issue is kicking the can down the road in order not to face a complete top and bottom overhaul.
2. I have a suspicion (hope?) that as someone else mentioned, it could be related to valve seat wear and I am thinking I should consider a head removal as a compromise. Much easier job to do on board. In the meantime I will do a quick check of the valve clearances but I doubt they are a problem (they are quite noisy and this should mean they are closing fully).
3. In the meantime I know that heating the inlet manifold makes the problem go away temporarily while I address the these two options.
4. It can't hurt getting the starter motor redone and its not a big deal to do. Will get this off and to the shop asap and maybe it will help.
5. I'll try to source a glow plug type heater and relay that will fit into the inlet silencer without the complication of feeding it diesel like the Perkins.
GM and Lister, I have been told, supply something like this. The Volvo one is available but at a silly price.

That's about it ( I think?)
Thanks everyone for all the ideas and sharing your experiences.
 
petergarth said:
I've had so many replies I'm trying to summarise my thoughts:

1. Fact: the compression is a bit low and as someone pointed out once warm the circulating oil increases the compression and so runs normally. Exactly my experience.
I accept that avoiding the basic compression issue is kicking the can down the road in order not to face a complete top and bottom overhaul.
2. I have a suspicion (hope?) that as someone else mentioned, it could be related to valve seat wear and I am thinking I should consider a head removal as a compromise. Much easier job to do on board. In the meantime I will do a quick check of the valve clearances but I doubt they are a problem (they are quite noisy and this should mean they are closing fully).
3. In the meantime I know that heating the inlet manifold makes the problem go away temporarily while I address the these two options.
4. It can't hurt getting the starter motor redone and its not a big deal to do. Will get this off and to the shop asap and maybe it will help.
5. I'll try to source a glow plug type heater and relay that will fit into the inlet silencer without the complication of feeding it diesel like the Perkins.
GM and Lister, I have been told, supply something like this. The Volvo one is available but at a silly price.

That's about it ( I think?)
Thanks everyone for all the ideas and sharing your experiences.
Click to expand...
Before going to the expenditure of start motor redone, do a volt drop test on the thick battery cables, you may be surprised what you may be loosing between the battery and motor.
 
penfold said:
I'd suggest an injector health check too, not difficult to pull them and deliver to an engineer for inspection.
Click to expand...
You certainly do not want to do an injector pull on the 2000 series unless absolutely necessary. Recipe for an expensive injector tube replacement which will almost certainly be head off and a visit to a VP dealer.
 
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