GJW Insurance clause

[oGaryo]

Hi, I'm in the process of applying for decent insurance for the new boat with the reputable GJW insurance folk but have come up against a bit of a blocker in the clauses in that the boat will not be insured whilst anchored off a beach unattended if she's under 26ft, mine is 25ft (27 with the swim platform)..

This is something we'd do on a fairly regular basis I guess so looks like the insurance is a none starter with that clause..

Can't get my head around why it's in there either and why 26ft Here's the wording from the key facts, is this pretty standard stuff?

*******************************************************

You must tell us if the maximum designed speed of your vessel exceeds 17 knots. If the maximum designed speed of your vessel exceeds 17 knots we do not cover:

amongst other things.......

- a vessel less than 26 feet if moored unattended off any beach or shore or for damage to the rudder, strut, shaft, propeller, electrical equipment, cables and fittings if the damage is caused by striking an underwater object;

 

[CX54WEK]

Hi, I'm in the process of applying for decent insurance for the new boat with the reputable GJW insurance folk but have come up against a bit of a blocker in the clauses in that the boat will not be insured whilst anchored off a beach unattended if she's under 26ft, mine is 25ft (27 with the swim platform)..

This is something we'd do on a fairly regular basis I guess so looks like the insurance is a none starter with that clause..

Can't get my head around why it's in there either and why 26ft Here's the wording from the key facts, is this pretty standard stuff?

*******************************************************

You must tell us if the maximum designed speed of your vessel exceeds 17 knots. If the maximum designed speed of your vessel exceeds 17 knots we do not cover:

amongst other things.......

- a vessel less than 26 feet if moored unattended off any beach or shore or for damage to the rudder, strut, shaft, propeller, electrical equipment, cables and fittings if the damage is caused by striking an underwater object;

The underwater gear clause would concern me as well!!

It may be worth ringing them though as we have had clauses removed from our N&G policy when we questioned them.

 

[jfm]

mine is 25ft (27 with the swim platform)..

You need to see if the method of determining length of the boat is defined in the contract. If it's not, then the words in the contract "a vessel less than 26 feet " take their ordinary English meaning and that means LOA. Your boat is 27 feet, not 25, so you're fine

BTW, I have found GJW a very good company to deal with. My father once made a claim and they were very quick/fair in paying for the damage. Separately, they accosted me at SIBS this year and took my details and promised contact/quote for my new boat but I've heard nothing from them so I will be going back to Pantaenius I suppose, who are fine too

 

[Bilgediver]

Hi, I'm in the process of applying for decent insurance for the new boat with the reputable GJW insurance folk but have come up against a bit of a blocker in the clauses in that the boat will not be insured whilst anchored off a beach unattended if she's under 26ft, mine is 25ft (27 with the swim platform)..

This is something we'd do on a fairly regular basis I guess so looks like the insurance is a none starter with that clause..

Can't get my head around why it's in there either and why 26ft Here's the wording from the key facts, is this pretty standard stuff?

*******************************************************

You must tell us if the maximum designed speed of your vessel exceeds 17 knots. If the maximum designed speed of your vessel exceeds 17 knots we do not cover:

amongst other things.......

- a vessel less than 26 feet if moored unattended off any beach or shore or for damage to the rudder, strut, shaft, propeller, electrical equipment, cables and fittings if the damage is caused by striking an underwater object;

I suggest you speak to them on the phone. Many of these clauses can be changed or cancelled either at no extra cost or for a change in the excess.

They certainly cover boats operating over 17 knots under agreed clauses.

 

[volvopaul]

I Insure my boat with GJW I havenever had to claim yet but I deal with clients who have to, sometimes deal direct with there insurance company, I have always found GJW easy to deal with.

On the other hand some companies are not easy to deal with, by means of not replying to emails, wanting to supply secondhand engine and outdrive parts to replace damaged items, im dealing with one at the moment, been waiting nearly a week now for a decision on a 3k claim, imagine if it were a totall loss claim, so id stick with gjw.

 

[KevB]

I suggest you speak to them on the phone. Many of these clauses can be changed or cancelled either at no extra cost or for a change in the excess.

They certainly cover boats operating over 17 knots under agreed clauses.

Spot on.

 

[oGaryo]

Guys, I've gone after GJW because of their excellent rep'.. I've also had it clarified that my boat is 27ft with swim platform but listed as 25ft without.. they have confirmed I will not be insured if I leave my boat unattended off shore as it is < 26ft LOA and capable of speeds > 17kts.. clearly, the swim platform isn't being considered as part of the LOA by GJW.

They do of course insure boats that are capable of greater than 17kts but only conditionally and this is one of the conditions I don't think I can live with.

Absolutely nothing against GJW and understand they're a good company by all accounts, just trying to understand why this clause is in place and enforced as it's such a shame I'll not be able to go with them as a result

 

[duncan]

The underwater gear clause would concern me as well!!

It may be worth ringing them though as we have had clauses removed from our N&G policy when we questioned them.

I think you will find that this isn't 'the underwater clause' - it's a clause about damage to underwater gear on small (under 25ft) fast (over 17 knots) left anchored.

I suspect it has it's origin in boats this size not having tenders and people taking them in very close, anchoring in shallow water (to wade back and forth) and damage to sterngear - but this is supposition on my part. However watching the activities of such boats on the south coast over the years I would have that clause (better worded maybe) in any insurance I underwrote!

I agree with the call to the insurers, then confirmation in writing etc - shouldn't be insurmountable.

Other insurers seem to be introducing some restrictions associated with 'outside recognised anchorages' - also slightly worrying. whilst the little anchor on the charts clearly defines many there are a wealth of others that are well known, established and safe (within the normal restrictions of appropriate weather etc).......

It will be interesting to get feedback on the response.

 

[DavidJ]

As bilgediver says, call them. All the companies I have been insured with will change clauses just for the asking without additional payment. If not change insurers.

 

[neale]

Guys, I've gone after GJW because of their excellent rep'.. I've also had it clarified that my boat is 27ft with swim platform but listed as 25ft without.. they have confirmed I will not be insured if I leave my boat unattended off shore as it is < 26ft LOA and capable of speeds > 17kts.. clearly, the swim platform isn't being considered as part of the LOA by GJW.

They do of course insure boats that are capable of greater than 17kts but only conditionally and this is one of the conditions I don't think I can live with.

Absolutely nothing against GJW and understand they're a good company by all accounts, just trying to understand why this clause is in place and enforced as it's such a shame I'll not be able to go with them as a result

But your boat is greater than 26ft LOA. LOA means overall with all the bits bolted on! To be honest many policies include this bit about being left unattended off a beach although one, I can't remember which now, said that being in sight of the boat was considered to be in attendance. Ie, if you are on the beach you will be covered as long as you have visual on the boat so you don't actually have to be on board.

I have been through this process recently and have read lots and lots of small print. It came down to N&G and GJW for me, and GJW won on price. They do have a clause about needing a 2kg fire extinguisher in the galley but I phoned them and got written confirmation that 2 x 1kg extinguishers was acceptable. This was what I had, so I was happy with that.

 

[oGaryo]

As bilgediver says, call them. All the companies I have been insured with will change clauses just for the asking without additional payment. If not change insurers.

I will you know, I reckon Duncan's hit the nail on the head.... looks like if I explain I have a tender it may help relax this particular clause.. I aso had concerns about the wording if she sank as it wasn't clear if she would be insured and then there's clauses in there about competent mechanics carrying out the maintenance which I would do so I wonder if I am classed as competent,

The main concern was this usage whilst anchored off a beach, the other's I can live with unless I'm forced to pay a qualified mechanic to work on my boat for it to be insured.

As you say, time to give them a bell for some dialogue to clarify

 

[gjgm]

I'm sure they need to standardise a policy in order to to be able to run a business, but as was said elsewhere,many of these clauses are changeable upon agreement. The anchored offshore one is very common, but upon agreement is usually flexible. After all, if you were the insurance co., I guess you wouldnt want someone to leave their speedboat with some flimsy anchor offshore for a day or two, either !
17 knot is also a common crossover in policies, though I havent come across the length one before.
If they cant provide the cover you want, use someone else with more suitable policies. No point in being through them, just bcz others found them good if the policy restricts your boating.

 

[Jassira]

My guess....

26ft is about the maximun length that can be towed behind car on UK roads. So you may well find that boats capable of >17 knts and under 26ft are lumped in with ski boats.

 

[thefatlady]

Quite a few years ago I queried this clause with GJW. It's the definition of "unattended" that is significant. If you anchor in a bay and dinghy ashore to the pub, from where you can reasonably get back to it if something goes amiss, that's no problem. If you go away completely for a long period such that it cannot be accessed or seen by you, that's different.

I claimed once from GJW (for striking an underwater object - bigger boat) and they were excellent. Also, I once had my boat damaged in a marina whilst I was away. The perpetrator was very open and paid for the damage, but GJW were helpful then, even though I didn't claim. I wouldn't hesitate to use them again.

 

[gazzogs]

Touching wood as I write, haven't had to make a claim as yet, but agree that phoning the insurance company is very helpful. At renewal time I always phone several companies when comparing rates and they all are willing to remove clauses or add extras at no cost.

 

[Kawasaki]

Dealt with GJW for for over 20 years.
Not the cheapest
But any problems and they have been great
Talk to them (very easy ) I am sure you will get some sense

 

[gjgm]

26ft is about the maximun length that can be towed behind car on UK roads. So you may well find that boats capable of >17 knts and under 26ft are lumped in with ski boats.

Is that right? I havent trawled through boat towing regs recently, but what with A-frame and overhang definitions, I m curious where 26ft comes from?

 

[oGaryo]

from the dept of transport regs:

If the towing vehicle has a permissible gross weight in excess of 3.5 tonnes the maximum width and length of the trailer are 2.55 metres and 12 metres respectively. If however the gross weight of the towing vehicle is 3.5 tonnes or less then the maximum permissible width and length are 2.55 metres and 7 metres respectively. In both cases the overall length of the towing vehicle and trailer must not exceed either 18m or 18.75m depending on the type of towing vehicle.

 

[gjgm]

from the dept of transport regs:

If the towing vehicle has a permissible gross weight in excess of 3.5 tonnes the maximum width and length of the trailer are 2.55 metres and 12 metres respectively. If however the gross weight of the towing vehicle is 3.5 tonnes or less then the maximum permissible width and length are 2.55 metres and 7 metres respectively. In both cases the overall length of the towing vehicle and trailer must not exceed either 18m or 18.75m depending on the type of towing vehicle.

Right, well maybe , but a trailer length isnt measured from the hitch, AFAIK, and there is permisible overhang over the trailer length itself, so I dont believe 7m is necessarily an obvious 7m! I ve never heard of the maximum length of the load (ie boat), because it isnt the load itself that is measured,surely.The regulations relate to the trailer, and overhangs which then define a maximum length, excluding A-frame. So if some of your boat is sitting over the A-frame.... what do you measure?
Maybe you are right and if you calculate all the possible variables, you end up with a theoretical maximum length. But how about a glider trailer...is that less than 25 ft or whatever? Short fuselage.

 

[neale]

Is that right? I havent trawled through boat towing regs recently, but what with A-frame and overhang definitions, I m curious where 26ft comes from?

At more than 26ft, boats typically become too heavy to tow so, although the length itself isn't enshrined in law, it is roughly about the longest boat you can tow. (I accept there will always be exceptions)