Gibraltar

Adaero

Adaero

Well-Known Member
Joined
15 Apr 2003
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190
Location
Devon, UK.
www.tulliana.adaero.co.uk
Can anyone give me some more background information on the marina's in Gibraltar please.

We are currently in the Canaries and are moving up to the Med next year. Our idea was to get to Gib in December this year and leave her there until spring next year before moving on. I have had one quote from Queensway but that was rather expensive and I'm waiting for one from Marina Bay.
(As a bit of background we are not VAT paid hence the reason for Gib rather than Spain)

Another question was does anyone know if they can haul a 7.5m beam Catamaran in Gib?

Many thanks
 
EDIT!!! Said Marina Bay when I meant Queensway Quay, sorry! I have now corrected it.

Queensway Quay hasn't had any space for casual visitors for a long while. Jackie is the admin manager and you need to get on her good books if you want to get in there. The new housing development has caused increased problems of surge in there but it is the same problem in Marina Bay. You need really good moorings, chains and metal springs. You cannot spend too much on moorings and fenders if you are staying in Gib. I don't think you can haul there now. Have a look at Sheppards website and phone Marina Bay, they will know. The staff at MB are knowledgeable and helpful.

As for VAT, if you are a foreign (i.e. outside EU) vessel you can put it into bond in Spain. This allows you to live aboard and work on the boat but you are not allowed to go sailing. Many Americans do that to avoid VAT and then leave the EU every few years to reset the VAT clock, say to North Africa. I don't know how this works if you are an EU Resident with a yacht flagged outside the EU, someone else will have to help you there as there are other issues.

Further up the coast on the Med side you have horribly expensive ports until you get to the port of Adra where you can haul and do all the work yourself. Most other yards don't allow you do do your own work. Almerimar does allow you to work if you agree it with the concession-holder, usually you give him some work and buy the materials from him, he supplies a bit of specialist labour. You must do it with his consent and agreement or you will be turned out of the harbour so keep him happy. Not many people know that, so tread carefully and diplomatically. Aguadulce is said to have a new scheme where you pay €10 per day extra on the hard and you can do some of the work yourself. Roquetas de Mar depends on being able to join the Yacht Club and get a club mooring but if you do you will find it more accommodating.

I find Gib a soul-destroying place for any longer than a few days. It does have its advantages for sure and you can walk or drive over to Spain when the Spanish customs and not playing silly Bs which they often do. Gib is not a cheap place to live as you cannot live on cheap watches. The local ex-Safeways (now Morrisons) is very, very expensive and the other supermarkets and mini markets are not to an International standard (or cheap). Most people go across to La Linea to buy food in the Spanish market or Mercadona. Whichever way you go, don't book more than a couple of weeks in Gib until you have made sure that it is the right choice for you. Some people love it, none of us are the same, but most people I know feel the same as I do. Gib is the place to stock up with all your UK favorite brands but phone the bank and have your credit limit raised first.
 
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Canaries to Gib in December

I sailed from Madiera to Spain in August last year, and it was 500 miles dead to windward. Not much fun. The Canaries must be 700, and the winds in December are usually stronger than in August.
I have heard people say that the way north is to wait for a depression, and get blown up by a southerly gale. Is that your plan, too?
If you can resolve your VAT problem, the Portuguese coast is cheaper than Spain.
Portimao can lift any size of boat.
If the lift is purely for peace of mind, rather than to do work, then the cheapest option for a cat would probably be one of the mudberths outside Bruce´s yard at Faro, which have stagings to give shore access, at about 5 euros a day. I dont think he could lift 7.5 beam, though. 00351 919 317 171 , e mail nave.pegos@gmail.com
 
Bruce can only lift 5m because of the dock.
At Olhão they use a trailer type of thing and can cope with a far greater beam - "Marina Formosa " but it is a boatyard, not a marina.
Jim
 
Manuel said:
Queensway Quay hasn't had any space for casual visitors for a long while. Jackie is the admin manager and you need to get on her good books if you want to get in there. The new housing development has caused increased problems of surge in there but it is the same problem in Marina Bay. You need really good moorings, chains and metal springs. You cannot spend too much on moorings and fenders if you are staying in Gib. I don't think you can haul there now. Have a look at Sheppards website and phone Marina Bay, they will know. The staff at MB are knowledgeable and helpful..
Click to expand...
I have been dealing with Jackie and she has said she can fit me in on the pontoons but only if I pay double rate as we are a Cat. This is different to their website which states only 50% extra for a multi? I pointed this out to Jackie but to now avail. They won't allow any vessels around the marina wall during the winter due to the swells and so hence the take it or leave it stance I believe.

Manuel said:
As for VAT, if you are a foreign (i.e. outside EU) vessel you can put it into bond in Spain. This allows you to live aboard and work on the boat but you are not allowed to go sailing. Many Americans do that to avoid VAT and then leave the EU every few years to reset the VAT clock, say to North Africa. I don't know how this works if you are an EU Resident with a yacht flagged outside the EU, someone else will have to help you there as there are other issues...
Click to expand...
We are UK registered and UK citizens so I think the bonding issue is out of the question. We have been in the Canaries since December last year after collecting the boat from Cape Town. Prior to the collapse of the Euro we had planned to go to Madeira and pay the VAT but a 30% hike due to currency fluctuations is a bitter pill to swallow. Also due to the economic climate and work commitments the original idea of spending 6 months on board and 6 months back in the UK hasn't worked out either this year. We are hoping to escape a lot more next year and were thinking of either Turkey or Croatia.
Manuel said:
I find Gib a soul-destroying place for any longer than a few days. It does have its advantages for sure and you can walk or drive over to Spain when the Spanish customs and not playing silly Bs which they often do. Gib is not a cheap place to live as you cannot live on cheap watches. The local ex-Safeways (now Morrisons) is very, very expensive and the other supermarkets and mini markets are not to an International standard (or cheap). Most people go across to La Linea to buy food in the Spanish market or Mercadona. Whichever way you go, don't book more than a couple of weeks in Gib until you have made sure that it is the right choice for you. Some people love it, none of us are the same, but most people I know feel the same as I do. Gib is the place to stock up with all your UK favorite brands but phone the bank and have your credit limit raised first.
Click to expand...
The plan was to get to Gib and then return to the UK until Feb so we weren't going to actually spend too much time there at all. Thanks for the info on the cost of living which is a bit of a suprise as I thought it would be quite reasonable.

The reason for the lift is to replace the saildrive anodes which are looking pretty worn (have to remove props) and to get a decent antifoul on as the one used by the manufacturers was pretty poor to say the least. It has only been on 12 months and the under coat is showing through in a number of places.

Thanks all for the info.
If anyone has any other suggestions or a plan we would be grateful.
 
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Might be worth looking at Ceuta, not sure about vat there though, think it might not apply but you would need to be sure. Much nicer than Gib but means a ferry and bus to Gib airport to get back to UK. Don´t think you´ll get lifted out there.
 
Adaero said:
Just got my copy of the Straits Handbook.
Has anyone got an opinion on Marina Smir and the ease of getting back and forth to the UK?
Thanks
Click to expand...

The last time I was in Gib. Shepherds were using the old oiling quay as a haul out but the prices were absolutely horrendous. There are no other haul facilities in Gib at all as the old yard has disappeared under the new development (which I helped build). I agree with all the comments about ground tackle. The swell got so bad after one easterly storm that I didn't feel safe getting off the boat onto the pontoon (fixed concrete as opposed to floating) and could not stand up in the boat without desperately hanging on to something.

Spent quite a bit of time in Smir. The marina is great, well sheltered and almost always virualloy empty. They have good haul out facilities and hard standing and are very professional in their boat handling. Great prices as well. It's then a taxi back to Ceuta and a ferry across to the mainland to Algeceras.

Now the bad news. There is nowhere to buy anything at all for the boat in Smir so you need to take literally everything with you before you go. Even down to sandpaper and the like. Nearest chandler type place is back in Ceuta a long taxi drive away and there's not much available when you get there.

Ceuta, has new good looking hard standing which opened about 2 years ago. It is though part of Spain so not sure what implications there would be on your VAT status.

If you want any more specific info on any of the above feel free to pm me.

Good luck

Chas
 
well, i'd be happier leaving it in canaries at this stage - as others say it won't be a picnic going upwind 600miles. In fact, i'm in Gib marina bay at the moment and plenty of well-dented boats, 3 nights is about enough realy, and off tomorrow to lanzarote with near certainty of following seas and winds 15-25 knots.
 
We were in Marina Bay last winter. The swell is absolutely awful during strong winds which occur a lot over winter. Getting on and off the boat is very difficult at times and I know several people who fell in. Fortunately (just joking) we got completely covered in crude oil in December after a spill in the bay and had to leave to get lifted out at Sotogrande! We stayed rest of winter in Soto. and will never go back to Gib.
 
Adaero said:
The reason for the lift is to replace the saildrive anodes which are looking pretty worn (have to remove props) and to get a decent antifoul on as the one used by the manufacturers was pretty poor to say the least. It has only been on 12 months and the under coat is showing through in a number of places.
Click to expand...
I do the antifoul when fouling becomes an issue. Does it matter to you that the undercoat is showing? If if does, do it. Anodes are important. Much cheaper to get a diver to do it for you or buy some diving kit yourself. Scuba or Hookah, assuming you are a strong swimmer and fit. You will save yourself a small fortune by buying the kit which you can use for cleaning, checking, anodes, removing fouling from prop. And fun.
 
25931 said:
Bruce can only lift 5m because of the dock.
At Olhão they use a trailer type of thing and can cope with a far greater beam - "Marina Formosa " but it is a boatyard, not a marina.
Jim
Click to expand...

Marina S'mir is a desperate attempt by the King of Morroco at getting some tourism. It's quite nice, relatively empty, relatively cheap and has some very interesting places to visit.

Getting back to the UK - taxi to Ceuta, Ferry to Algeciras then get a bus to Gib for a flight
 
st599 said:
Marina S'mir is a desperate attempt by the King of Morroco at getting some tourism. It's quite nice, relatively empty,....
Click to expand...

....and relatively full of stinking-rich Moroccans driving super-cars who pack into the disconnects every night and who appear somewhat under the influence of substances not approved of by their religious leaders. All in the safety of a security compound with 10' fences and armed guards but not, presumably, the local or religious police? I find it a rather bizarre place, not a place to stay in but perhaps fine for leaving a boat.
 
tcm said:
well, i'd be happier leaving it in canaries at this stage - as others say it won't be a picnic going upwind 600miles. In fact, i'm in Gib marina bay at the moment and plenty of well-dented boats, 3 nights is about enough realy, and off tomorrow to lanzarote with near certainty of following seas and winds 15-25 knots.
Click to expand...

We are in Marina Rubicon, Lanzarote so might see you when you get here unless you're heading for Calero.

Thanks everyone for their help. Gib is now off the radar and I'm still waiting for quotes from Smir and Ceuta.
 
Have you thought about leaving her in Morocco? I bought a couple of berths in Marina Smir for much the same reasons as you are considering Gib (UK boat, UK resident). It's cheaper, only 15 miles from Gib and you can get the ferry from Algeciras for car access. PM me if you'd like more info.
 
Marina Smir

Smir is a much better alternative to Gibraltar and contrary to some of the earlier comments is clean, tidy and friendly. They have good lift out and storage facilities and the security is first class. They are technically very competant but geared more to the power side than sailing boats. It very competitive and flights to Tangier from the UK and Europe are frequent and cheap. It is however a 2 hour taxi ride to Smir from Tangiers - 60 Euros. Alternatively there is a ferry from Ceuta (10 miles away) to Gibraltar or Algeciras with flights available from there. We have been based there since June when we came across the Atlantic and will leave the boat there through this winter.
 
Marina Smir

Some pics from our stay a couple of years back. You can see how spotless the yard is - very well looked after and professional. The yard guys were good, too. Mohammed, using the pressure washer in the pics, was great, careful and took the time to do a good job.
As Chas has said, just don't expect anything by way of parts, materials, etc - bring them over from Gib or La Linea.
 
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