mainshiptom
Active member
As a thought ? if I sell my boat to someone outside the EEC can I get my vat back?
I have paid 17.5% in July 2008.
Tom
I have paid 17.5% in July 2008.
Tom
Getting VAT Back
- Thread starter mainshiptom
- Start date
capsco
New member
Tom it is or was March the 1st not April 1st,
Are you a reistered buisiness, if not I dont' think there is a snowball in hells chance.
Are you a reistered buisiness, if not I dont' think there is a snowball in hells chance.
mainshiptom
Active member
its worth setting up a business?
jfm
Well-known member
Absolutely no. It makes no difference if you set up a business; the answer is still no. Sorry. The time to sort out VAT on buying a new boat is when you buy it new
rogerthebodger
Well-known member
Last September when I was in the UK I purchased a number of items for my boat and filled in the correct form, got is signed when I exported at LHR sent back and only got some of the VAT back.
UK VAT on personal export from the UK is a con. If I left the EU from another country other than the UK no chance as forms must be signed on final export port and French or German customs are not interested in UK forms
In RSA when you leave you can get the VAT back at the airport before you fly out.
UK VAT on personal export from the UK is a con. If I left the EU from another country other than the UK no chance as forms must be signed on final export port and French or German customs are not interested in UK forms
In RSA when you leave you can get the VAT back at the airport before you fly out.
jfm
Well-known member
Sure, but all that doesn't change the answer to Tom's question
Tranona
Well-known member
You also need to remind the buyer if he is a non-EU resident that the boat could be liable again for VAT if he attempts to re-import it into the EU.
VAT is a tax on th transaction, not the asset, so once the boat "leaves" the EU it "loses" its "VAT paid status" except in very narrow circumstances.
kcrane
Active member
I followed the bit about VAT being on a transaction, but why would he need to remind the buyer, would he have some liability if he didn't?
jfm
Well-known member
You don't "need" to. You can if you want but you'd be introducing a topic that might spook the buyer. He might even google it and find horror stories on internet forums
. Personally I'd keep the transaction simple and not mention this
mainshiptom
Active member
Thanks
JFM , Thanks for the advise, Need to start looking for a new boat?
tom
JFM , Thanks for the advise, Need to start looking for a new boat?
tom
Imperial One
Active member
EU VAt
Hi,
If Vat is paid at the time of original purchase by a non Vat registered individual or company, then the Vat cannot be reclaimed by the purchaser or any subsequent purchaser.
The only way to get Vat reclaimed is to buy a NEW boat from a dealer and pay the Vat. You can then reclaim this by proving to the Vat authorities on your quarterly returns that you are a Bona Fide Vat registered company that has a legitamate purpose for a boat within their organisation, eg ferry company, day trips company or Charter operation.
If a vat paid boat is sold into the EU, then the Vat paid here in the UK is accepted as valid proof of Vat paid status anywhere in the EU.
The same is true of buying a boat in say Spain or France that has been Vat paid at time of purchase in that country. You do not have to pay UK Vat as long as you have the original document proving EU vat has been paid somewhere in the EU.
If the boat is sold outside of the EU as a second hand craft, the Vat cannot be reclaimed................by anyone.
Equally, if the original paperwork showing Vat was paid on its original sale, should it later be re imported to the UK then Vat is payable on its current value unless it is re-imported by the original exporter/owner.
If in any doubt (dare I say this) consult a BMF member Broker like me who will look at the paperwork and the situation in front of them and advise accordingly.
Mike
Hi,
If Vat is paid at the time of original purchase by a non Vat registered individual or company, then the Vat cannot be reclaimed by the purchaser or any subsequent purchaser.
The only way to get Vat reclaimed is to buy a NEW boat from a dealer and pay the Vat. You can then reclaim this by proving to the Vat authorities on your quarterly returns that you are a Bona Fide Vat registered company that has a legitamate purpose for a boat within their organisation, eg ferry company, day trips company or Charter operation.
If a vat paid boat is sold into the EU, then the Vat paid here in the UK is accepted as valid proof of Vat paid status anywhere in the EU.
The same is true of buying a boat in say Spain or France that has been Vat paid at time of purchase in that country. You do not have to pay UK Vat as long as you have the original document proving EU vat has been paid somewhere in the EU.
If the boat is sold outside of the EU as a second hand craft, the Vat cannot be reclaimed................by anyone.
Equally, if the original paperwork showing Vat was paid on its original sale, should it later be re imported to the UK then Vat is payable on its current value unless it is re-imported by the original exporter/owner.
If in any doubt (dare I say this
) consult a BMF member Broker like me who will look at the paperwork and the situation in front of them and advise accordingly.Mike
Last edited:
Tranona
Well-known member
Hi,
Equally, if the original paperwork showing Vat was paid on its original sale, should it later be re imported to the UK then Vat is not repayable.
It was once and hence always will be a Vat paid boat.
If in any doubt (dare I say this
Mike
This bit is not true. A boat never strictly has "VAT Paid Status" except for those covered by the transition arrangements where a confusing term " Deemed VAT paid" is used.
Any boat sold in the EU after 1986 can "lose" that "status" by being exported from the EU. If it is sold to a non-EU resident and subsequently re- imported into the EU it is liable for VAT on entry. The original VAT payment was only related to that transaction and re-importation is a new chargeable event. There are certain exceptions to this rule, the most common is if the boat is re-imported by the same person that exported it or if the person importing it is a returning resident or taking up residency in the EU.
All this is explained in HMRC VAT Notice No 8, which I assume you consult before advising clients!
fireball
New member
Personally I'd consult an accountant ...
BartW
Well-known member
I don't believe this is true:
When you are a VAT registered company and you buy a SECOND HAND boat from another VAT registered company in your country, (a charter company f.e.) then you can reclaim the VAT that the seller is charging you.
At least in Belgium you can, and it would surprise me if different in UK.
Imperial One
Active member
Hi Bart,
Yes I agree with you 100% about buying and selling to Vat registered companies in the EU. In fact if the buyer was in another EU country, you simply invoiced the nett amount and quoted the other companies Vat number on the invoice.
Unless I misunderstood it, the original post was concerning selling a privately owned used boat to an EU resident and the seller reclaiming the VAt paid two years ago.
I should have made it more clear that I was only referring to privately owned boats as opposed to Vat registered company owned boats where the Vat can of course be charged and then reclaimed until it eventually goes to a private buyer who has to pay the vat in the country of supply.
Hope this clarifies my thoughts.
Mike.
D
Deleted User YDKXO
Guest
Yes that's true. If a VAT registered company sells a secondhand piece of plant or equipment such as a boat to another VAT registered company in the same country, they have to add VAT on top of the agreed price and the other company can claim it back. If the buying company is a VAT registered company in another EU country or a company outside the EU altogether , then VAT is not added on the invoice.
But either way this doesn't help mainshiptom, because, even if he set up a VAT registered company to sell his boat, he could only ever add the VAT on top of the price already agreed (and pay it back to HMRC) rather than claim back VAT out of the agreed price
Imperial One
Active member
VAT is due ..........
Ah yes, Notice 8 (December 2002).
A very helpful if somewhat wordy document.
Agreed, this area is a minefield and every case is different and needs checking carefully hence I suggested asking someone in the business who may be doing such tasks regularly.
What you say is right and I stand corrected for my mis-posting of my thoughts.
My apologies to all.
Technically a boat does remain 'Deemed Vat paid' but as you say it's re-importation to the EU can give rise to another vat charge being due depending on who is importing it.
In this, hypothetical, case it could be prudent to consider importing it through an EU country where the Vat charged is at a lower rate than the UK.
Pay the vat on the value deemed correct by that countries authorities, some may be more thorough in their valuation than others I suspect, they may even ask to see the sales invoice.
Once the Vat is paid in the EU the boat is then free to come back to the UK with an EU proof of Vat payment document.
I understand there are stories of VAT free boats being bought privately from Greece (pre EU membership days) and coming via Spain as their vat rate then was lower than ours.
For those of you who wish to read the whole definitive document yourselves it can be dowloaded at
http://customs.hmrc.gov.uk/channelsPortalWebApp/downloadFile?contentID=HMCE_CL_000289
or viewed at
http://customs.hmrc.gov.uk/channels...CE_CL_000289&propertyType=document#P168_18857
For those of you with not enough time, the relevant section of Notice 8 refers as follows -
6.4 Can a vessel lose its VAT paid status?
VAT is due on the importation of any vessel from outside the EU. However, there are provisions for this VAT to be relieved when an EU VAT paid vessel returns to the EU. This provision is only appropriate if the person who exported the vessel undertakes the importation. If an EU VAT paid vessel leaves the EU, and whilst outside the EU is sold, the new owner will, unless eligible for one of the reliefs described in this Notice, be liable to pay VAT if the vessel is brought back into the EU.
Mike.
Ah yes, Notice 8 (December 2002).
A very helpful if somewhat wordy document.
Agreed, this area is a minefield and every case is different and needs checking carefully hence I suggested asking someone in the business who may be doing such tasks regularly.
What you say is right and I stand corrected for my mis-posting of my thoughts.
My apologies to all.
Technically a boat does remain 'Deemed Vat paid' but as you say it's re-importation to the EU can give rise to another vat charge being due depending on who is importing it.
In this, hypothetical, case it could be prudent to consider importing it through an EU country where the Vat charged is at a lower rate than the UK.
Pay the vat on the value deemed correct by that countries authorities, some may be more thorough in their valuation than others I suspect, they may even ask to see the sales invoice.
Once the Vat is paid in the EU the boat is then free to come back to the UK with an EU proof of Vat payment document.
I understand there are stories of VAT free boats being bought privately from Greece (pre EU membership days) and coming via Spain as their vat rate then was lower than ours.
For those of you who wish to read the whole definitive document yourselves it can be dowloaded at
http://customs.hmrc.gov.uk/channelsPortalWebApp/downloadFile?contentID=HMCE_CL_000289
or viewed at
http://customs.hmrc.gov.uk/channels...CE_CL_000289&propertyType=document#P168_18857
For those of you with not enough time, the relevant section of Notice 8 refers as follows -
6.4 Can a vessel lose its VAT paid status?
VAT is due on the importation of any vessel from outside the EU. However, there are provisions for this VAT to be relieved when an EU VAT paid vessel returns to the EU. This provision is only appropriate if the person who exported the vessel undertakes the importation. If an EU VAT paid vessel leaves the EU, and whilst outside the EU is sold, the new owner will, unless eligible for one of the reliefs described in this Notice, be liable to pay VAT if the vessel is brought back into the EU.
Mike.
jfm
Well-known member
If in any doubt (dare I say this
Hmmm. Don't, imho. If you have a complex tax question do not ask a yacht broker or the BMF. Anyone who really understands this stuff might well use the broking services of a yachtbroker, but won't actually be one or work for the BMF. There's much in the above post that isn't quite correct, including for example "The only way to get Vat reclaimed is to buy a NEW boat from a dealer and pay the Vat."
jfm
Well-known member
BartW you are perfectly correct. Don't rely on ImperialOne's analysis.
