Lon nan Gruagach
Well-Known Member
Yup, and when we can agree about TO and AT then its all settled.
Getting rid of difficult skippers
- Thread starter wully1
- Start date
Yup, and when we can agree about TO and AT then its all settled.
wully1
Well-Known Member
This thread isn't turning out the way I expected it to...
TBH, working abroad and hating the idiot box I'd hope for an entertaining litany of cock ups that would amuse and educate...
Like the three wankers in a boat in Puildobhran , or the army officers on an army boat who got thrown off the boat by helicopter, or the drunken skipper and crew on Gigha, the wife dumped in the canal or......
TBH, working abroad and hating the idiot box I'd hope for an entertaining litany of cock ups that would amuse and educate...
Like the three wankers in a boat in Puildobhran , or the army officers on an army boat who got thrown off the boat by helicopter, or the drunken skipper and crew on Gigha, the wife dumped in the canal or......
Serin
Well-Known Member
Well, speaking for myself, I think I've made it pretty clear that I think women should be free to take whatever role suits them. If they are happy to play the subservient role (and when it comes to running the boat, that's what it is, whatever you want to call it), or, indeed, no role at all - good luck to us. No problem at all. One of my companions on the boat is just such a sailor. She loves being on the boat but has zilch interest in learning or doing anything practical on board. Fine by me.
But for those women who would like to do more, learn more, take more responsibility, then there's still a lot in the way of many of them doing that. It's happening, bit by bit, on shore. Good to see it happening on the water as well. There are a lot of us (the other us) as well, as I know from 50 years as an independent sailor (sailing for 40 of them on an equal footing with my husband) and sailing with many women.
Equality means people (male and female) being genuinely free to live their lives as they choose, not forcing people into roles they don't choose.
Serin
Well-Known Member
Sorry to disappoint you. But the tales I could tell of some of the skippers I encountered in the days I used to answer crew ads
would probably prove unacceptable to the mods. (Which reminds me - I accepted a job offer to be a mod myself and haven't heard a dickey bird since. - And the fee rate I quoted was perfectly reasonable. Damn poor show IMHO) Had to learn to be a tough cookie in those days, or a gal could get into deep water (or it might have been hot soup).......
wully1
Well-Known Member
just don't name names and you're good to go..I'm bored of Mr& Mrs already.
Serin
Well-Known Member
I couldn't name names if I wanted to. I'm talking ancient history and most were eminently forgettable. Except for one - owner of a famous ocean racer and world class cad. At least he had some pretty good wines on board. That's something, I suppose.
Quandary
Well-Known Member
Sexism free cock-up tale for Wully. (I have loads of them.)
We used to have a Trapper 300, we bought it as a kit, could not decide what to call it so it became 'Quandary'. Each winter we used to take it from the sea to Lough Neagh to participate in Antrim Boat Club's excellent 20 race winter series. (Still going on until this day) The Trapper was on the limit for our road trailer and really too deep, 5' draught, for Lough Neagh, we had to put the sails up, sheet in tight and all hang out to leeward to get it over the bar at the mouth of the Sixmilewater, the bar was not wide so we usually could surf over it on a single wave coming back.
Anyway, the winter over so the time came to go back to sea so three of us set off for the only slipway on the lough deep enough for us at Oxford Island at the south east corner of the lough, while my wife set off with the road trailer behind our Sierra to bring us home for antifouling before going back to sea. It was a fine bright day and the crisp N.W. was freshening all the time, the bright sun was low in front of us and all the land we were passing was low flat and featureless. (excuses starting to build) We had our 8hp Yamaha stowed in its racing location on top of a double lining of house bricks under the cockpit. (Did I mention that the 300 was a very tippy boat.) The cold wind was building steadily but we were heading downwind so kept full sail up, main and big genny. As we approached the destination, I new the slipway was sheltered by an island and sure enough there was one in front, I headed in to the channel and as it closed I suddenly noticed that there was white water right across in front of us, 'Shyte, wrong bloody island' panic stations, sheeted in and tried to beat back but she just lay down on her side and carried on until we hit the gravel. The waves on Lough Neagh are never much more than 4 to 5'high but steep and close but of course there are no tides and from where we were we could see only grass and rushes, no buildings though I think some cows were watching. I am sure I did a fair bit of guldering then, I am calmer these days. We were lying on our side on a gravel bank that joined the little island to the shore, so we took the sails down and sat down for a think; prodding over the lee side with the spinnaker pole revealed that there was about 3-4 of water but the bank rose at least another foot. We decide we had to get out of there while the waves were present, once it calmed down we were stuck forever, though we could wade along the bar to the shore. Tried punting with the pole but we were two far over to get purchase. We put the sails back up again and my two crew walked up them to the spreaders, I went over the lee side and every time a wave washed in I hauled on the toe rail bringing her a few inches further up the bank, it was very cold and tiring so every few minutes I pulled myself back aboard for a rest.
Meanwhile my wife had arrived at the Club, one of the members came out and invited her up to the club, she declined explaining she was waiting for someone, he said 'C'mon, you would enjoy seeing this', he took her up and lent her some binos. 'Would you look at these eedjits, what the #### are they up to.'
By now I was getting really tired and jumped over the side for a last attempt, the guys up the mast were whinging about the cold but they at least were dry, as I jumped the boat suddenly righted, shooting them down to the deck, there was no ground under my feet and the boat was starting to make way again while I hung grimly on the toerail, the crew managed to ease the sheets to slow her up and dragged me aboard before I let go.
When we got to the slip we had the mast down the trailer in and loaded and on our way in double quick time without acknowledging the grinning faces of the group that came to greet us, I was soaked through and probably hypothermic but had to drive the car as my wife always refused to drive when the boat was behind, it was a two hour tow at an absolute maximum of 40mph as above that the Trapper like to sway and dip progressively like an old bronco.
We used to have a Trapper 300, we bought it as a kit, could not decide what to call it so it became 'Quandary'. Each winter we used to take it from the sea to Lough Neagh to participate in Antrim Boat Club's excellent 20 race winter series. (Still going on until this day) The Trapper was on the limit for our road trailer and really too deep, 5' draught, for Lough Neagh, we had to put the sails up, sheet in tight and all hang out to leeward to get it over the bar at the mouth of the Sixmilewater, the bar was not wide so we usually could surf over it on a single wave coming back.
Anyway, the winter over so the time came to go back to sea so three of us set off for the only slipway on the lough deep enough for us at Oxford Island at the south east corner of the lough, while my wife set off with the road trailer behind our Sierra to bring us home for antifouling before going back to sea. It was a fine bright day and the crisp N.W. was freshening all the time, the bright sun was low in front of us and all the land we were passing was low flat and featureless. (excuses starting to build) We had our 8hp Yamaha stowed in its racing location on top of a double lining of house bricks under the cockpit. (Did I mention that the 300 was a very tippy boat.) The cold wind was building steadily but we were heading downwind so kept full sail up, main and big genny. As we approached the destination, I new the slipway was sheltered by an island and sure enough there was one in front, I headed in to the channel and as it closed I suddenly noticed that there was white water right across in front of us, 'Shyte, wrong bloody island' panic stations, sheeted in and tried to beat back but she just lay down on her side and carried on until we hit the gravel. The waves on Lough Neagh are never much more than 4 to 5'high but steep and close but of course there are no tides and from where we were we could see only grass and rushes, no buildings though I think some cows were watching. I am sure I did a fair bit of guldering then, I am calmer these days. We were lying on our side on a gravel bank that joined the little island to the shore, so we took the sails down and sat down for a think; prodding over the lee side with the spinnaker pole revealed that there was about 3-4 of water but the bank rose at least another foot. We decide we had to get out of there while the waves were present, once it calmed down we were stuck forever, though we could wade along the bar to the shore. Tried punting with the pole but we were two far over to get purchase. We put the sails back up again and my two crew walked up them to the spreaders, I went over the lee side and every time a wave washed in I hauled on the toe rail bringing her a few inches further up the bank, it was very cold and tiring so every few minutes I pulled myself back aboard for a rest.
Meanwhile my wife had arrived at the Club, one of the members came out and invited her up to the club, she declined explaining she was waiting for someone, he said 'C'mon, you would enjoy seeing this', he took her up and lent her some binos. 'Would you look at these eedjits, what the #### are they up to.'
By now I was getting really tired and jumped over the side for a last attempt, the guys up the mast were whinging about the cold but they at least were dry, as I jumped the boat suddenly righted, shooting them down to the deck, there was no ground under my feet and the boat was starting to make way again while I hung grimly on the toerail, the crew managed to ease the sheets to slow her up and dragged me aboard before I let go.
When we got to the slip we had the mast down the trailer in and loaded and on our way in double quick time without acknowledging the grinning faces of the group that came to greet us, I was soaked through and probably hypothermic but had to drive the car as my wife always refused to drive when the boat was behind, it was a two hour tow at an absolute maximum of 40mph as above that the Trapper like to sway and dip progressively like an old bronco.
NormanB
Well-Known Member
Thread drift alert.
As a regular charterer in Greek waters, I too enjoy watching other boats berthing, some very competently, some less so - but always entertaining. However, I have never being able to distinguish the differing competence of charterers or owners to come up with a sweeping generalisation. But on balance, ownership of itself does not confer competence in some sort of inextricable way.
I was poor as a lad at school and my friend had his own slide rule which I was rather envious of. But he really struggled to get an accurate result from it. I rather enjoyed going home for tea with him in exchange for teaching him to use it, they had a TV as well which I found fascinating! Anyway it was a happy ending, he used to lend me his slide rule for my homework and he got rather good with it too. He the owner and me the 'charterer'.
JumbleDuck
Well-Known Member
Tell more.
RupertW
Well-Known Member
No but it ought to, and in my experience usually does because you have an inbuilt advantage over the most experienced charterers. You have learnt the the way the throttle responds, the anchor windlass, the length and weight of the ropes and where the stays and cleats are - all to an instinctive level so you have to concentrate on much less. And, if like this year for me, it's your sixth time into Skopelos harbour then its like a home marina with no anxieties about where and how you berth and exactly how far away the harbour wall is.
But we still mess up sometimes, of course.
JumbleDuck
Well-Known Member
Maybe. However, I suspect that there are many owners who own because nobody will take them sailing or lend them a boat and/or because they are not qualified to charter. In sailing any incompetence can easily be overcome with money, and fairly modest sums of money at that. See every year's "Captain Calamity" stories.
DanTribe
Well-Known Member
At a building company I once worked for, a site agent took a year off to sail his boat in the Mediterranean. He asked a couple of young tradesmen to help him get the boat part of the way, maybe Brittany or further. They had done some sailing and got on well with the boss so agreed, imagining a nice gentle cruise.
Once on board the skipper changed character and became a martinet. After five days non stop they had to put into St Peter Port for fuel. The lads were getting spruced up for a run ashore.
"Where do you think you are going!"
" Just for a beer"
" Well OK but just one, we are leaving at 5 am"
The lads went ashore and headed straight for the ferry.
When they got back, we asked how the old boy was managing.
" Don't know, don't care"
Once on board the skipper changed character and became a martinet. After five days non stop they had to put into St Peter Port for fuel. The lads were getting spruced up for a run ashore.
"Where do you think you are going!"
" Just for a beer"
" Well OK but just one, we are leaving at 5 am"
The lads went ashore and headed straight for the ferry.
When they got back, we asked how the old boy was managing.
" Don't know, don't care"
mjcoon
Well-Known Member
I remember Skopelos harbour, too... (Fortunately this was not our charter yacht!)
Mike.
Seatrout
Well-Known Member
Crinan & Ardrishaig basins are the maritime equivalent of the 18th green on a golf course!
Those there to be entertained and those there to entertain, at the same time, being an excellent study on human behaviour.
Egos made and egos destroyed; the worst and the best traits emerging; pecking orders rearranged; opinions formed; relationships readjusted. It all happens in what can either be construed as a relaxing environment or a prison.
Those there to be entertained and those there to entertain, at the same time, being an excellent study on human behaviour.
Egos made and egos destroyed; the worst and the best traits emerging; pecking orders rearranged; opinions formed; relationships readjusted. It all happens in what can either be construed as a relaxing environment or a prison.
Kermit
Well-Known Member
I recall one instance some years ago. We were motoring out of Brightlingsea harbour and the roller reefing had jammed. I asked Mrs K to take the helm for a few minutes. Not something she usually liked to do. She's happy to sit and pull the odd bit of rope, but would much rather enjoy the ride than take part.
Anyway, I just said aim for the boat in the distance, and I popped forward to sort out the jammed line. Next thing I felt was the sudden halt as we ran aground. This struck me as odd, as the boat I'd chosen as the target was in deep water and I hadn't been that long sorting out the problem.
I asked Mrs K what had happened and she said that she'd done as I'd asked and tracked the boat in the distance, which by now was on the opposite side of the Colne. I'd not noticed that it was motoring across the river, not down it!
I could do little but laugh even as I struggled to get us afloat again.
Anyway, I just said aim for the boat in the distance, and I popped forward to sort out the jammed line. Next thing I felt was the sudden halt as we ran aground. This struck me as odd, as the boat I'd chosen as the target was in deep water and I hadn't been that long sorting out the problem.
I asked Mrs K what had happened and she said that she'd done as I'd asked and tracked the boat in the distance, which by now was on the opposite side of the Colne. I'd not noticed that it was motoring across the river, not down it!
I could do little but laugh even as I struggled to get us afloat again.
Lon nan Gruagach
Well-Known Member
You know you are a difficult skipper when your crew:
When casting off, throws the last line and then cant jump the gap. *wave bye bye"
When casting off, throws the last line and then cant jump the gap. *wave bye bye"
KellysEye
Well-Known Member
When Jane and I went long distance sailing she helmed, except when using the windvane, at sea also when we were picking up bouys, anchoring and docking in marinas. I did the sail handling, anchoring, picking up bouys and jumping ashore to tie up. There was no shouting and often no communication needed because we both knew exactly what we were going to do. Surely as a man is normally stronger than a woman that should be normal when sailing, not the shouting idiot bullying his wife.
Serin
Well-Known Member
Too right! The only way to sail as a couple, IMHO. However we varied it slightly when I sailed with my husband. I could and did do all the jobs involved, rather than sticking to the (admittedly logical) male/female job roles. If I couldn't manage the anchor, for example, I would never have been able to manage the boat. It is true that men are usually physically stronger, but the trick in all sailing is to learn to use the gear and the right techniques to manage the loads. If we had to rely on physical strength, none of us would sail anything larger than small dinghies.
In many years of sailing as skipper, often with an all female crew, I have yet to come across a situation that I couldn't deal with simply for lack of physical strength. What really matters is sometimes lack of knowledge or technical expertise and, perhaps most important of all, lack of determination to do this thing!
reginaldon
Well-Known Member
I can understand this perspective and especially from a conditioned psychological perspective.
When we started camping with the family my wife was not only clueless about what to do, but also ( to a great extent ) afraid to get involved.
I have had the fortunate experience of being in the scouts, adventure groups, DofE etc, and expect no difference between genders.
She has been brought up in an environment where the 'men do stuff' .
Bit by bit ( and sometimes not easily ) we have worked on this and now we work together to pitch and break camp, and we manage the kids at the same time.
The next adventure is the boat, which she is excited about, and I realise that I am a very lucky person to have someone who is not afraid to try new things.
I guess what I'm trying to say is take some time to give people a chance, especially those you really care about.. they will surprise ( and probably surpass ) you
Regards
David
My lovely lady, who has recently gone to her reward, had been a Girl Guide and was in to hiking and camping, as I was, she was a natural - this was one of the boxes I ticked in 1946, when I decided that this one was going to be mine.
KellysEye
Well-Known Member
>It is true that men are usually physically stronger, but the trick in all sailing is to learn to use the gear and the right techniques to manage the loads. If we had to rely on physical strength, none of us would sail anything larger than small dinghies.
Good point.
Good point.
