Getting insurance with limited experience

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ross84

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Hi all,

I think I have a boat within my price range and there is space at the local marina. However, the next snag seems to be getting insurance. Previously, I thought RYA DS + ICC was enough, but with limited experience, so far companies are giving me the provision that 'someone more experienced' must be with me at all times while the yacht is underway. Any first-time boaters out there in a similar position manage to find an insurer who are happy to go with qualifications only? Any other ideas?

Thanks!
 
I had zero yacht sailing qualifications when I purchased my Jeanneau 389 and my insurer (Y Yacht Insurance) also added the "someone more experienced" clause for my first season, this seemed to be common with all the insurers I got quotes from. The 2nd season however they were happy to drop this clause. I did subsequently go ahead and get my ICC (not DS) as we wanted to charter in Croatia. I am surprised you can't get an insurer to drop this clause right away though considering you have the DS + ICC already, maybe try Y if you haven't already?
 
Id ask them to be more specific. You have DS and ICC which means you must have spent at least five days sailing so how much more do they want?
 
Hmmm, interesting - and a little surprising - I would have expected them to charge you more, but not to effectively refuse! We took out insurance through Bishop Skinner for our first boat and they made no such requirement. I did have a moderate level of experience of dinghy sailing and they took that plus RYA Dayskipper (both theory and practical) as sufficient. If I remember correctly, you were looking for a boat that you could live aboard with ambitions to sail it too? If so, you may have to accept the requirement for "someone more experienced" while underway, then get hold of a cheap dinghy which will not require insurance and spend all your free time in the spring mucking about in that before going back to your insurance company to ask them to lift the "someone more experienced" requirement...
 
I used 3rd Party Boatowners insurance ... which was a simple pay money after filling in form. Many people claimed it was unsuitable for a Marina - rubbish. Marina's only require you have a recovery / salvage clause in to protect them about if boat sinks and removal. 3rd party is covered of course. No surveys etc.

When I moved boat to Baltics - I then found a German Insurance Outfit that insured anywhere boat ... and price / coverage was mind blowingly less than any UK I'd seen .... and the cover was full comprehensive - no surveys etc. ICC is fully acceptable to them.

Mannheimer Versicherungen

Were very nice and precise to deal with. LaterI didn't need Insurance after a few years ... but if I ever need again - I will renew with them.

Mannheimer Insurance Group | Stadtmarketing Mannheim...

Worth a try ....
 
Go for 3rd party, you can arrange it online, it's about £90. Basic boat is one company, there are several. If you want comprehensive Craftinsure, e.g. will let you do a quote online, you don't get asked for quals/experience. Yachting 24 are good, I've used them in the past, they don't ask for surveys on older boats which some companies insist on...
 
Thanks all - this yacht owning business is rather complicated. I can understand why people recommend just to sail on someone else's!
 
ross84 said:
Thanks all - this yacht owning business is rather complicated. I can understand why people recommend just to sail on someone else's!
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Indeed - "NMB" as a friend of ours would always chant as she gybed it in a force 8 - that's short for "Not My Boat".....
 
Y-24 don't seem to mind about experience or qualifications but I do notice things like having to choose between partial loss and total loss (apparently a partial loss is not insured if you choose 'total loss' - so are total losses not insured under partial loss?) and the fact that they'll only meet 50% of the costs if the boat is over 10 years old. Given I'd be putting in my entire life savings into this boat, I wouldn't be too happy - is this the price of not having a years experience?
 
ross84 said:
Y-24 don't seem to mind about experience or qualifications but I do notice things like having to choose between partial loss and total loss (apparently a partial loss is not insured if you choose 'total loss' - so are total losses not insured under partial loss?) and the fact that they'll only meet 50% of the costs if the boat is over 10 years old. Given I'd be putting in my entire life savings into this boat, I wouldn't be too happy - is this the price of not having a years experience?
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I would expect the marina to want you to have liability cover - we had to submit a copy of out policy document so that they could check it...
 
I ran into the same problem. Had DS, ICC 12 days sailing 36ft+, plus dinghy's.

Towergate were very pragmatic and I felt listened to my experience and made an appropriate judgement for my 21footer!

Initially I tried GJW. On the phone I was told they classed experienced as 24 days in a single 6 month period.

I investigated further and got this from them....


Our policies are based on the insured having experience in skippering similar sized vessels to the one that is to be insured to use the vessel on their own, otherwise we put on a condition that they have to be accompanied by an experienced person.

We class experience as a seasons experience so yes we would want you to of skippered a similar sized vessel for 2-3 hours at least once a week between April and October, to be classed as experience.

You do not need to of had ownership of a boat before but it is use of friends, family or hiring of boats.

Best Regards

XXXXXX
Assistant Yacht Underwriter
 
I'd be interested to know how many total losses there are among leisure boaters in the UK. Many insurance companies will try their utmost to wriggle out of paying claims and those that are supposedly good at claims handling (Pantaenius, e.g) are so prescriptive about the conditions that have to be satisfied before they will entertain you that the whole exercise can become prohibitively expensive. So a lot of people, myself included, opt for third party cover and effectively self-insure their own boats. Obviously this has to be a risk that you as an individual are prepared to take but nobody knows better than me how seaworthy my boat is. The same principle also applies if you want to cruise outside of the areas that a lot of policies normally cover...
 
I've been with GJW for the last 9 years and I don't remember the question coming up. I do have DS practical and an ICC but that was only to satisfy Spanish officialdom, not that I've ever been asked.
 
We used Bishop Skinner when we bought our first boat, a Princess 435, with no experience and there was no requirement for anyone else on board. Three years (and a lot of practice plus Day Skipper etc) later, they allowed us to proceed to the Med in similar fashion, with the proviso that we coast hopped the Bay of Biscay.
 
V1701 said:
I'd be interested to know how many total losses there are among leisure boaters in the UK. Many insurance companies will try their utmost to wriggle out of paying claims and those that are supposedly good at claims handling (Pantaenius, e.g) are so prescriptive about the conditions that have to be satisfied before they will entertain you that the whole exercise can become prohibitively expensive. So a lot of people, myself included, opt for third party cover and effectively self-insure their own boats. Obviously this has to be a risk that you as an individual are prepared to take but nobody knows better than me how seaworthy my boat is. The same principle also applies if you want to cruise outside of the areas that a lot of policies normally cover...
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I had a total loss in November. (Boat went on fire in the marina thanks to a dehumidifier.) Insured with Craftinsure, as I had been for several years, and never been asked about experience. Craftinsure are on-line but underwritten by N&G. Surveyor was sent for initial assessment within a couple of hours (fire brigade were still there!), and after a full assessment a few days later, total loss was declared, and the full insured value, less excess, was paid within two weeks. Insurance is about the unexpected, and I would be considerably poorer, and not now in the market for a new boat if I had been third party only. Based on that experience, I would highly recommend Craftinsure.
 
I have no memory of seeking insurance for our first cruiser, since it was nearly fifty years ago but I certainly had no sea-going experience behind me. I am surprised that such restrictions are being placed on first-timers, especially in small, low-value boats and wonder what statistics have led them to this position. I would have expected an increased premium, but an option of increasing the excess could be used to ameliorate this.
 
Pantaenius gave me a no-strings online quote for a hull value of 45 + 10k personal effects on their EU coastal (< 20nm off) for just under 600. That's with a day skipper and about a month's charter / flotilla in Greece + being desperate enough to add 8 year's no claims inland boating with a bit of tidal.
 
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