German Torpedo found in Scapa flow

They're saying it's a German one, but is it not just as likely that it's one that had a "Whoops" moment from one of our ships?
 
Woodlouse said:
I think they're saying its one of Prien's that missed. Apparently several did.
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It is an amazing story

he came into the Flow through a very narrow channel partially blocked by sunken ships, made a run at the Royal Oak. one torpedo hit of the three and then he started to scarper and relaised that he had still not been rumbled so he turned around and had a second crack at it

10.31 in

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SKdfTMRbuHE

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Günther_Prien

2000px-U-47_raid.svg.png
 
Fascinating, indeed. As a teenager I read about the exploits of Prien and our guys like Mars and Wanklyn.

Some kind of inspiration there for the 18 years I spent in the Submarine Service. :encouragement:
 
capnsensible said:
Fascinating, indeed. As a teenager I read about the exploits of Prien and our guys like Mars and Wanklyn.

Some kind of inspiration there for the 18 years I spent in the Submarine Service. :encouragement:
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gives me the willies

I cannot watch das boot

all too claustrophobic for me

being a german submariner was pretty close to being on a suicide squad

brave lads though
 
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By coincidence I've just read ' Iron Coffins ' by Herbert A. Werner

one of few U-Boat skippers to survive; there is some quibbling about whether his memory was as accurate as he thought, but it certainly gets the message across as to what life was like.

Extremely brave men, but I found it difficult to sympathise when he desperately wanted to go on sinking ships long after the game was up.

OTOH if they've found one of Prien's torpedo's that's quite something.
 
dylanwinter said:
I agree - and they might even learn if there was a fault with the torpedoes that missed
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Iirc, the torpedoes used in WW2 had a reasonable number of duds amongst them. I've read a number of accounts of boats firing, being sure that the torp hit but no bang. Equally, stories of ships being hit by duds. Equally the shells and bombs dropped / fired by both sides (and hence still being dug up)

For a sub skipper, that must be the ultimate frustration. You go to all that work and risk, get into place, calculate the firing solution and fire, torp runs beautifully, hits the target dead centre and just scrapes off some Barnacles, leaving you detected and fighting for your life.
 
dylanwinter said:
I agree - and they might even learn if there was a fault with the torpedoes that missed
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Early in the war, up until just after the Norwegian campaign the German torpedoes were notoriously unreliable. I think as many as two out of three either failed to explode, failed to run as intended or exploded prematurely. It was something that saved several RN capital ships during the invasion of Norway.
 
jac said:
Iirc, the torpedoes used in WW2 had a reasonable number of duds amongst them. I've read a number of accounts of boats firing, being sure that the torp hit but no bang. Equally, stories of ships being hit by duds. Equally the shells and bombs dropped / fired by both sides (and hence still being dug up)

For a sub skipper, that must be the ultimate frustration. You go to all that work and risk, get into place, calculate the firing solution and fire, torp runs beautifully, hits the target dead centre and just scrapes off some Barnacles, leaving you detected and fighting for your life.
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As I was saying the Germans had big problems early in the war but by late 1940 had solved most of their problems.

The Americans on the other hand had an appalling time of it and it was almost 1944 before they'd fixed the many problems with their torpedos. During development they only tested one once and failed to appreciate how different conditions would effect the run as a result the vast majority ran at an incorrect depth and so failed to hit the target. The high command managed to ignore the complaints from their captains for years before acting on the problem.
 
The British had a tough time of it developing reliable torpedo's too, a truly excellent book is

' The Torpedomen ' by Rear Admiral E N Poland.

This is fascinating, covers the development of torpedo's, mines and the countermeasures against them at shore base HMS Vernon, Portsmouth; originally a collection of Napoleonic War hulks.
 
Good morning, what a fascinating historic find, let's hope it can be put in a museum rather than being blown up.

It must have been quite something for the diver who was chiselling off the barnacles and realised what he was hammering, is there such a thing as a 'brown wet-suit moment' ;)

Some interesting comments have been made about the reliability of torpedos...

After the Falklands War, it emerged that Commander Chris Wreford-Brown, of HMS Conqueror, had a choice of torpedos with which to attack the Arg vessel Belgrano.

He decided to use a Mark 8 to make sure of the job, or actually two or three of them I believe.

These weapons were designed in the 1920's, and powered by clockwork, or some such 'steampunk' method, but he was sure they would arrive on target and do the business, having no on-board computers etc...

To Mr Seajet, thank you for the book reccomendation. Yacht designer Maurice Griffiths' memoir of WW2 mining, and mine countermeasures, is another good one, if you come across a copy.

Enjoy the sunshine LD
 
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Seajet said:
By coincidence I've just read ' Iron Coffins ' by Herbert A. Werner

one of few U-Boat skippers to survive; there is some quibbling about whether his memory was as accurate as he thought, but it certainly gets the message across as to what life was like.

Extremely brave men, but I found it difficult to sympathise when he desperately wanted to go on sinking ships long after the game was up.

OTOH if they've found one of Prien's torpedo's that's quite something.
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U968 skipper Otto Westphalen and his crew hold(held) reunions at Bremmerhaven, one of which two crew members of HMS Goodall attended in 2002(?).
Goodall was the last Allied warship sunk in the European theatre (29th April 1945). Leaving Murmansk she was sunk by U968, one of possibly 16 Uboats waiting for convoy RA66 returning empty to Scotland.
My uncle was one of circa 100 killed when Goodall blew up.

I was told by one of my uncle's fellow officers, Lt. Cyril Lovitt, who attended the Uboat reunion that he asked the engineering officer of U968:-
"Why at so very close to the end of the war did you fire at us and carry on fighting. You must have realised all was over for the Germany?"
The Uboat officer's response:-
"We were told by Kriegsmarine/Doenitz we were winning the war and that within twelve months we would be the victors and masters of Europe."

Both sides, all old men by that reunion, parted friends and stayed in touch with each other.

It still hurts to think of those young lives wasted, so close to the end of the war.
 
Robert Wilson said:
U968 skipper Otto Westphalen and his crew hold(held) reunions at Bremmerhaven, one of which two crew members of HMS Goodall attended in 2002(?).
Goodall was the last Allied warship sunk in the European theatre (29th April 1945). Leaving Murmansk she was sunk by U968, one of possibly 16 Uboats waiting for convoy RA66 returning empty to Scotland.
My uncle was one of circa 100 killed when Goodall blew up.

I was told by one of my uncle's fellow officers, Lt. Cyril Lovitt, who attended the Uboat reunion that he asked the engineering officer of U968:-
"Why at so very close to the end of the war did you fire at us and carry on fighting. You must have realised all was over for the Germany?"
The Uboat officer's response:-
"We were told by Kriegsmarine/Doenitz we were winning the war and that within twelve months we would be the victors and masters of Europe."

Both sides, all old men by that reunion, parted friends and stayed in touch with each other.

It still hurts to think of those young lives wasted, so close to the end of the war.
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off topic but bomber losses were appalling

not as bad as Uboat losses but terrible

http://www.taphilo.com/history/8thaf/8aflosses.shtml

Bomb Group Station Bomber
Type Missions
Flown Losses
34th Mendelsham B-17 170 34
44 Shipdham B-24 343 153
91 Bassingbourn B-17 340 197
92 Podington B-17 308 154
93 Hardwick B-24 396 100
94 Bury St. Edmonds B-17 324 153
95 Horham B-17 320 157
96 Snetterton Heath B-17 321 189
100 Thorpe Abbots B-17 306 177
303 Moleworth B-17 364 165
305 Chelveston B-17 337 154
306 Thurieigh B-17 342 171
351 Polebrook B-17 311 124
379 Kimbolton B-17 330 141
381 Ridgewell B-17 296 131
384 Grafton Underwood B-17 314 159
385 Great Ashfield B-17 296 129
388 Knettishall B-17 306 142
389 Hethel B-24 321 116
390 Framlingham B-17 300 144
392 Wendling B-24 285 127
398 Nuthampstead B-17 195 58
401 Deenthrope B-17 256 95
445 Tibenham B-24 282 95
446 Bungay B-24 273 58
447 Rattlesden B-17 257 97
448 Seething B-24 262 101
452 Deopham Green B-17 250 110
453 Old Buckenham B-24 259 58
457 Glatton B-17 237 83
458 Horsham St. Faith B-24 240 47
466 Attlebridge B-24 232 47
467 Rackheath B-24 212 29
486 Sudbury B-17 188 33
487 Lavenham B-17 185 48
489 Halesworth B-24 106 29
490 Eye B-17 158 40
491 Metfield B-24 187 47
492 North Pickenham B-24 64 12
493 Deebach B-17 158 41
Total 10631 4145
 
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