german main sheet system

[stranded]

I know the system you mean, still seen on big boats with really fancy blocks on the traveller.
There is more frction when you move the traveller as the sheet moves through the blocks on the car.
Still such boats usually have paid crew to do the winding....

We're not especially big, it certainly ain't fancy, and I have to pay handsomely for the privilege of doing every bloody thing myself! But you're right, moving the traveller is a bit stiff.

 

[stranded]

Thanks bbg - I'll look into that - would I be looking at twice as much mainsheet, or even more? And could I hope for close to double to pull, or is a lot lost in additional friction?

 

[lw395]

Thanks bbg - I'll look into that - would I be looking at twice as much mainsheet, or even more? And could I hope for close to double to pull, or is a lot lost in additional friction?

The friction may be partly the rope in the blocks.
Could you temporarily try a length of new, thinner rope?

Often the problem is that you have to pull from a bad angle.

 

[lw395]

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Mainsheet...350?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_3&hash=item2351255c6e

 

[stranded]

Not sure if this is going to work!: http://s1379.photobucket.com/user/markwalker11/media/photo_zpsphhejtf1.jpg.html?filters[user]=142678677&filters[recent]=1&sort=1&o=0

Neil - clearly didn't work - if you pm me I will email you a pic. Mark

 

[Kerenza]

I love the system. However you do need to equalise the sheet on either winch from time to time, the alternative being a continuous sheet, needing a fair bit of long term confidence in a splice which could be anywhere in the system.
Gybing in big winds is easy (6.3m boom), with mast man taking the slack and easing out from the new windward side. Lighter airs just grab the twin sheet near the boom and ease out on the new course. I must say I have a simple bridle from shroud to belay ring at kicker then back to opposite shroud and back to cabin top jammer. Just takes the jitters out of the boom over the bumpy bits and fractionally slows the whole movement from side to side.
For really quick hardening up round the mark, crew on each winch. Main trimmer on traveller. When I've got them that is!
Steering really is by traveller and when two handing in reasonable conditions, I stick the autopilot on and play the traveller so it barely operates.
Takes lots of physical effort out of trimming a big main, although I wonder if a reversible winch would be interesting.
In fact on my boat there's no chance of bearing away unless the main is eased, main always leads helm.

 

[bbg]

You will need twice as much for the distance between the blocks, if that makes sense. So if the distance between the block on the traveller and the blocks on the main is (say) 3 meters when fully eased, yo currently need 6 m. You will need 12 m for that part. The tails will be unaffected but the fact you are using a different system might mean you need some additional tail so you don't run out on one side.

Friction is the enemy so low friction blocks would be good. The load on the line will be lower so you could probably get away with a thinner diameter line which would also reduce friction.

 

[Daydream believer]

if you keep a good lookout, plenty of time to handle "

You clearly have not sailed up the east coast north of Lowestoft. Plus, perhaps your single handed experience is limited
I for one find it essential to have the mainsheet & track adjustments near the helm position

 

[Tranona]

You clearly have not sailed up the east coast north of Lowestoft. Plus, perhaps your single handed experience is limited
I for one find it essential to have the mainsheet & track adjustments near the helm position

I wonder how I (along with thousands of others) manage without it and don't get into trouble - and sailing in similarly busy locations such as the Solent and Poole Harbour.

Of course I forgot that (by your own admission) you sail a boat where you cannot let go of the helm or it goes where it wants. Please recognise that not all boats are like that and you need to adapt your sailing style to reflect how your boat behaves.

 

[knuterikt]

ohmaggie - any chance of a photo (of your mainsheet system!). We have a centre cockpit yacht with the traveller on the afterdeck, and I am looking at options to replace the current system. We have a pair of spinnaker winches mounted towards the rear of the cockpit that would work well with your system.

I have a cabin top traveller - but the principle would be the same.
It's a 1:4 with a violin block mounted on the traveller, three single blocks on the boom.
At the goose neck I use a Dyneema strop to attach the two blocks.
The blocks at deck level (not visible in this picture) is attached to the bottom of the turnbuckle using a doubled Dyneema loop.
The sheet is led back to the winches through foot blocks to the a nice entry to the winch.
With end boom sheeting you might need some strops to avoid the sheet running along the boom to fall down when slack.

 

[stranded]

ohmaggie - any chance of a photo (of your mainsheet system!). We have a centre cockpit yacht with the traveller on the afterdeck, and I am looking at options to replace the current system. We have a pair of spinnaker winches mounted towards the rear of the cockpit that would work well with your system.

OK Neil, trying another way...

 

[neil1967]

Many thanks - very useful - I do find pictures a lot easier to understand.........

 

[knuterikt]

I wonder how I (along with thousands of others) manage without it and don't get into trouble - and sailing in similarly busy locations such as the Solent and Poole Harbour.

Of course I forgot that (by your own admission) you sail a boat where you cannot let go of the helm or it goes where it wants. Please recognise that not all boats are like that and you need to adapt your sailing style to reflect how your boat behaves.

But isn't it nice that we all sail
- In different boats
- With different crews
- In different conditions
- In different places
- Have different priorities

But can still share ideas and select the ones that suits us?

Where I sail we have lots of nice islands with narrow sounds and hard rocks.
Sail mostly short or single handed, prefer to sail (not using engine) so for me it's important to have sail controls at the helm.
Traveller, main sheet, head sail sheet (self tacking) so I can control the boat with shifting winds.
The geography give us unstable wind - both direction and strength, challenging and fun to sail in.
I don't like the idea of engaging the AP when only a boat length away from the hard stuff (aka rocks) under changing wind conditions.

But You and I can (still) chose what suits us.

 

[Daydream believer]

I wonder how I (along with thousands of others) manage without it and don't get into trouble - and sailing in similarly busy locations such as the Solent and Poole Harbour.

Of course I forgot that (by your own admission) you sail a boat where you cannot let go of the helm or it goes where it wants. Please recognise that not all boats are like that and you need to adapt your sailing style to reflect how your boat behaves.

Firstly the vast majority sail with a crew to handle the mainsheet.
Secondly the East coast of the UK is littered with literally thousands of lobster pots. Many of which cannot be seen until right on top of them so tapping on the autopilot to change 10 deg is not an option ( nor come to that is re trimming the Aeries)
One does not get the luxury of strolling to the helm adjusting the autopilot then casually strolling forward to the mainsheet.
Esp if one is well knackered & the boat is heeled at 45 deg in a North Sea chop
Like I said you need to experience SH on the east coast ,or some parts of the French coast, to experience lobster pots etc
But to each his own & if you have the crew to work the mainsheet then no problem.
So long as you do not have to keep calling them up on deck every 5 mins to adjust it cos they will soon get p..d off

 

[Tranona]

Firstly the vast majority sail with a crew to handle the mainsheet.
Secondly the East coast of the UK is littered with literally thousands of lobster pots. Many of which cannot be seen until right on top of them so tapping on the autopilot to change 10 deg is not an option ( nor come to that is re trimming the Aeries)
One does not get the luxury of strolling to the helm adjusting the autopilot then casually strolling forward to the mainsheet.
Esp if one is well knackered & the boat is heeled at 45 deg in a North Sea chop
Like I said you need to experience SH on the east coast ,or some parts of the French coast, to experience lobster pots etc
But to each his own & if you have the crew to work the mainsheet then no problem.
So long as you do not have to keep calling them up on deck every 5 mins to adjust it cos they will soon get p..d off

Not true. We have plenty of pots between Portland and the Solent (my sailing area for the last 35 years) and I have sailed single handed for most of that time - last few years in a 37 footer. You just have to learn how to manage with what you have. Never had any difficulty in dodging them using the autopilot (assuming I have seen them). Why make life difficult for yourself by using a wind vane in waters where you expect to have to make sudden course adjustments?

To me it makes sense to have a boat that is directionally stable and does not need constant attention to sail trim if you want fuss free single handed sailing in congested waters.

 

[Daydream believer]

Not true. We have plenty of pots between Portland and the Solent (my sailing area for the last 35 years) and I have sailed single handed for most of that time - last few years in a 37 footer. You just have to learn how to manage with what you have. Never had any difficulty in dodging them using the autopilot (assuming I have seen them). Why make life difficult for yourself by using a wind vane in waters where you expect to have to make sudden course adjustments?

To me it makes sense to have a boat that is directionally stable and does not need constant attention to sail trim if you want fuss free single handed sailing in congested waters.

A wind vane is far better up wind when sailing than an electric autopilot although neither of my autopilots ( St 2000 & an AV-100)are coupled to a wind unit .neither would I consider the electric ones as reliable as my aeries when under sail, that is why I have 2
As for pots my record ( Grimsby to Lowestoft)for one night is 5 hits. How i was supposed to see them at night has me puzzled. fortunately i was motoring & the cutter did its job every time
Finally I would not give up my boat for the world ( Unless I could have exactly the same that would heave too as well) as it is an excellent single hander. But there again all controls are to hand
i have no fewer than 26 control lines leading to the cockpit for use at different times but i find it essential to have the mainsheet within reach so i do not have to leave the helm. It would be really awkward on the cabin
One might note that number of designs actually make special mention in literature that the mainsheet etc is near to the helm so they seem to think that customers like it that way

 

[haydude]

Not true. We have plenty of pots between Portland and the Solent (my sailing area for the last 35 years) and I have sailed single handed for most of that time - last few years in a 37 footer. You just have to learn how to manage with what you have. Never had any difficulty in dodging them using the autopilot (assuming I have seen them). Why make life difficult for yourself by using a wind vane in waters where you expect to have to make sudden course adjustments?

To me it makes sense to have a boat that is directionally stable and does not need constant attention to sail trim if you want fuss free single handed sailing in congested waters.

+1

I have been sailing single handed or on watch alone on deck for many years for thousands of miles, I have never had the mainsheet near the helm on any of my boats, yet I dodged hundreds of buoys. In all these years I admit I had 2 accidents, both involving floating lines between distant buoys, in both cases releasing the mainsheet would not have made any difference because I was already on top of them when I saw them, and with a bit of swearing and shouting at the lines I managed to get off on my own.

I use the autopilot 100% of the time with any state of sea and thus I do not understand the comments of those who say they cannot rely on the autopilot, perhaps they do not have the right autopilot for their boat.

 

[lw395]

+1

I have been sailing single handed or on watch alone on deck for many years for thousands of miles, I have never had the mainsheet near the helm on any of my boats, yet I dodged hundreds of buoys. In all these years I admit I had 2 accidents, both involving floating lines between distant buoys, in both cases releasing the mainsheet would not have made any difference because I was already on top of them when I saw them, and with a bit of swearing and shouting at the lines I managed to get off on my own.

I use the autopilot 100% of the time with any state of sea and thus I do not understand the comments of those who say they cannot rely on the autopilot, perhaps they do not have the right autopilot for their boat.

Your lack of understanding of the way some other people choose to sail does you no credit.
Some people like to sail their boats actively, some like to program their autopilots, each to his own.

 

[Birdseye]

Firstly the vast majority sail with a crew to handle the mainsheet.
Secondly the East coast of the UK is littered with literally thousands of lobster pots. Many of which cannot be seen until right on top of them so tapping on the autopilot to change 10 deg is not an option ( nor come to that is re trimming the Aeries)
One does not get the luxury of strolling to the helm adjusting the autopilot then casually strolling forward to the mainsheet.
Esp if one is well knackered & the boat is heeled at 45 deg in a North Sea chop
Like I said you need to experience SH on the east coast ,or some parts of the French coast, to experience lobster pots etc
But to each his own & if you have the crew to work the mainsheet then no problem.
So long as you do not have to keep calling them up on deck every 5 mins to adjust it cos they will soon get p..d off

Pull your neck in a bit Daydream. I dont sail from the east coast or the south but I have sailed both at various times over the last 30 years. I like sailing the east coast but there is nothing special about it in terms of weather or congestion or sea areas. I happily used my pilot whilst sailing the area and that was mostly in a distinctly unwieldy catamaran. In any case have you not heard of pilot remote controls?

 

[Daydream believer]

I use the autopilot 100% of the time with any state of sea and thus I do not understand the comments of those who say they cannot rely on the autopilot, perhaps they do not have the right autopilot for their boat.

Im am on my 5Th autopilot in 2 years on a 31 ft fin keeled yacht
2 No Simrad TP32
2 No raymarine 2000
I now have a raymarine AV-100- I used it last week for first time ( apart from a calibration sail) to go to Boulogne
Twice it suddenly went 70 degrees off course & then cancelled the drive

My Aeries may be old & it may not be very good at downwind sailing, unless windy, or when motoring. But it is 100% reliable in as much I know exactly what to expect from it
However, it is not just a quick flick of a switch to connect or disconnect & I have to go to the stern to operate it