Birdseye
Well-Known Member
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german main sheet system
- Thread starter Birdseye
- Start date
Tranona
Well-Known Member
Yes, exactly like my current boat, although in practice it is less of a problem than imagined, mainly because it is not a boat that requires constant trimming and dumping of main etc. I have singlehanded for years with it like that and being in mast it is quite easy to fine tune the mainsail area to minimise the need for instant access to the mainsheet. Autopilot helps of course as one is not then tied to the helm.
However have just ordered a new boat that has the main sheet just in front of the binnacle and primary winches aft near the helm. Smaller boat but overall sail area not much smaller at 51 sqm compared with 58, but much smaller genoa at 22 instead of 32. All part of keeping up with advancing age and making life easier.
savageseadog
Well-Known Member
The German mainsheet system with winches takes a reasonable amount of skill to use, especially on gybes. One advantage is it's fast to release in terms of less line to run. The drawback is you have to be ready to release, if you want to do it quickly,with the mainsheet uncleated or off the self tailer. It can be slower to bring in unless crew are helping with sweating the sheet and grinding both winches.
haydude
Well-Known Member
What about the Genoa? From the city of Genoa in Italy although first used by an English boat during a race right there and hence the name?
As a matter of curiosity Genoa is pronounced correctly with the emphasis on "e" rather than the "o" as most do.
See here: http://www.pronouncenames.com/pronounce/genoa
haydude
Well-Known Member
I am not sure why it is so important to have controls near the helm. If anything they would be on the way. Let's be realistic.
If we are racing, we will have one helmsman and crew. If we are cruising ... well who cruises even single handed without an autopilot?
If we are racing, we will have one helmsman and crew. If we are cruising ... well who cruises even single handed without an autopilot?
Birdseye
Well-Known Member
What boat have you ordered?
I suppose it depends a bit on the boat. Had a Prout cat once and that was so much fun to helm that it was on autopilot almost 100% of the time off berth. With the present boat, and liking to race anyway, I often spend a few hours when cruising just helming the boat, tacking it myself etc. But then its a nice boat to handle and not flighty. So I do appreciate having some of the controls to hand when behind the wheel. I only wish more of them were.
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lw395
Well-Known Member
Lots of people prefer to steer, to get the best out of the boat.
In close quarters situations, you need to be steering, and when the gust hits you as you sail into clear air, you may want to ease the sheet.
If you don't need to ease the sheet now and then, the main simply isn't big enough...
I don't often sail single handed, but often two up, and the other person is not going to be standing by the sheet full time.
If you have the sheets to hand, it becomes possible to leave and pick up the mooring under sail etc.
I regard an autohelm as an option which I can choose to use, not an essential.
If other people want to sail differently that's fine by me though.
Tranona
Well-Known Member
Bavaria 33 to replace my current 37 which is too big and cumbersome for what I want to do now. Was perfect for what I wanted at the time which was a semi liveaboard in the Med.
Key requirements for new boat were easier to handle single handed, particularly in and out of berth, but still good accommodation. Short list was Hanse 325, Jeanneau 33i and Bavaria. Chosen boat won because the cockpit layout was better - more room, easier sail handling - and more spacious down below. Plus of course a bit of brand loyalty having being very satisfied with last boat. Other 2 were close but overall no clear advantages over final choice.
knuterikt
Well-Known Member
+1
Twister_Ken
Well-Known Member
One more thing. With the current trend to smaller gennys and bigger mains, the effort required to sheet in the main with a multi-part purchase begins to become a struggle above a certain sail area limit, so having it on a beefy winch makes life less sweaty.
Also, it reduces the amount of string in the cockpit, compared to a multipart sheet and maybe a fine tuner as well.
Also, it reduces the amount of string in the cockpit, compared to a multipart sheet and maybe a fine tuner as well.
dunedin
Well-Known Member
One important reason is if you have to bear off suddenly, to avoid another boat, floating obstruction or pot buoy.
Need to be at helm to bear off - and unless can ease mainsail quickly likely to just accelerate and not bear away, risking hitting the object or boat trying to avoid
haydude
Well-Known Member
Yeah, but ... We are talking about boats sailing at less than 10kts (and I am saying 10kts to cover the extreme), that is just 11.5 mph. On boats accidents happen in "slow motion", that is to say that if you keep a good lookout, plenty of time to handle "distant" sheets after having pushed the +/-10 button 4 or 5 times on the autopilot.
flaming
Well-Known Member
I'm also not a fine of the fine tune for cruising - you need to remember to haul it in when going downwind otherwise you can end up with a block crossing the cockpit at head height during a gybe. Which has documented cases of being a bad idea.
bbg
Well-Known Member
That's how we did when I raced on a maxi. Six or seven people on the main for a gybe when the wind was up.
Two mast men sweating the sheet at the mast.
Two grinders (one on each winch, top-grinding).
One or two main sheet trimmers. Could get by with one if the other was in the self-tailer, but you needed at least one ready to ease quickly. Two is better to get a big quick ease and to even out the sheet tails.
One person on the traveller.
Of course you don't need that many on a smaller boat.
stranded
Well-Known Member
Not sure if ours is strictly a german mainsheet system as it doesn't go via the mast - centre cockpit, traveller on afterdeck just behind helm, double ended sheet going to primary winches - I can manhandle up to about a low F4 after which I need to use the winch. Which makes gybing great fun when its blowing a bit: have to sheet in main on the lazy primary, clutch it off, whip the mainsheet off the lazy winch, put the lazy genny sheet on the lazy winch, jam off the working genny sheet and remove it from the working winch, put the mainsheet on the working winch so I am ready to ease the main, gybe the main, clutch off the main, put the genny sheet back on the working winch, ease and gybe the genny then put the mainsheet back on the new lazy winch. We're usually two up, which often means I am doing manouevres single handed. We tend to tack right round a lot! Really need a couple of dedicated mainsheet winches, in which case it would be a great system, but there is nowhere obvious or ergonomically efficient to put them. I am guessing that doubling up the purchase by usiing a double block on the boom and traveller car to reduce the times I have to use the winches to gybe wouldn't work on this system (purely on the basis that I haven't seen one - I tend to get brainfreeze when trying to visualise purchases).
bbg
Well-Known Member
Based on your description it is not what I would think of as a German mainsheet system.
No shame in tacking round. Sounds like good seamanship to me.
If I understand your system correctly you may already have a 2:1 purchase. I think you could make it 4:1 without too much difficulty but that would mean you would need a LOT more mainsheet. You'd need two blocks on the boom and three on the traveller, instead of what I currently assume is one on the boom and two on the traveller.
No shame in tacking round. Sounds like good seamanship to me.
If I understand your system correctly you may already have a 2:1 purchase. I think you could make it 4:1 without too much difficulty but that would mean you would need a LOT more mainsheet. You'd need two blocks on the boom and three on the traveller, instead of what I currently assume is one on the boom and two on the traveller.
neil1967
Well-Known Member
ohmaggie - any chance of a photo (of your mainsheet system!). We have a centre cockpit yacht with the traveller on the afterdeck, and I am looking at options to replace the current system. We have a pair of spinnaker winches mounted towards the rear of the cockpit that would work well with your system.
Tranona
Well-Known Member
Exactly. You adjust your way of sailing to suit the equipment you have available to you, and if that means having less mainsail area than is optimal that is the compromise you have to make if you still want the benefits that the boat has in other areas. If the compromises are too great for you and you cannot modify the existing arrangements, time to change boat.
In the case of coachroof mounted mainsheets (and in mast mains) there are clearly many people who accept their limitations as thousands of boats use at least the first of those, and many of them both. They presumably value the benefits they bring more than the potentially reduced ability to get the maximum out of the boat.
Same applies to an autopilot. It can make a significant contribution to the capability of the boat and crew when cruising, and often the lack of a good pilot can be very limiting.
lw395
Well-Known Member
I know the system you mean, still seen on big boats with really fancy blocks on the traveller.
There is more frction when you move the traveller as the sheet moves through the blocks on the car.
Still such boats usually have paid crew to do the winding....
stranded
Well-Known Member
Not sure if this is going to work!: http://s1379.photobucket.com/user/markwalker11/media/photo_zpsphhejtf1.jpg.html?filters[user]=142678677&filters[recent]=1&sort=1&o=0