Genoa size?

[mattonthesea]

In the process of ordering new genoa for our Rival 32 but I forgot to take the size before leaving the boat (in Finland). I have the specs for her but the originals were 150%. Far too big!

We don't do much upwind beyond a close reach so tacking is not the issue; it's more that we go out in strong winds when we need to furl a fair bit away. If we can furl up to 25% before losing a decent shape then both a 120% and 130% would shorten to slightly less than 100% and keep shape.

So: are there any other things to think about or should I just go for the 130%.

Thanks

M

 

[stav]

When I have had roller furlers always had a second detachable stay for storm jib and for a lightweight genoa. Surely modern design would make 130% with a padded luff a viable option?

 

[Refueler]

I have two sail boats that I schanged genoas on ...

25ft Motorsailer ... Sunrider 25. The genny would add to the weather helm due to its foot being long and way past the mast base. I reduced the genny foot length by approx 15% with a replacement genny ... the difference was immedaite .. and she lost no speed - in fact I think she may be quicker as no longer fighting the helm and causing so much rudder drag.

38ft Cruiser racer - Conqubin 38. I had choice of a genny that was probably 120 - 130% or a self tacker that would probably be about a 90%. I like both - the boat does not have heavy weather helm .. she can be set up easily to just have that touch of WH to be safe ... but still light ...
But the self tacker is a game changer - really comes into its own .. speed is still good .. probably about 0.5kt difference .. but makes life so much more easy ...

It is my opinion that too often you see boats with oversize gennys that are doing nothing but heeling and increasing WH .. crew think its great - in their minds they are tanking it along ... but never consider that in fact a better balanced setup would be as fast and easier to manage ...

I know what some are thinking ... MAINSAIL is biggest cause of WH ... sorry but that is not strictly true ... its BOTH sails acting to move the CoE rearward that does it ..

So to OP ... personally I would be looking to have a cruising genny with reduced foot length ... keep the luff height ... move its CoE fwd and you can then be less overpressed when wind pips up .. better pointing ... etc etc.

 

[potentillaCO32]

Have you thought about asking on the Rival Association, or Rival 32 facebook group?

 

[Baggywrinkle]

On both my previous and current boats, I switched from 130% to 110% genoas, and fitted an asymetric with snubber to the first boat, and a permanent furling code-zero on a bowsprit to the second.

What is important is what you are trying to achieve, and how your boat and rig was originally designed - older boats tend to have larger genoas. IMO consult a competent sailmaker and tell them what you are trying to achieve. I had great advice from both Crusader Sails for my first boat and Elvstrom for my second (has to use a European supplier for my new boat due to the B-Word). The new sails transformed the boats. There are many factors, genoa track length and position, sheeting angles etc. etc. - a competent sailmaker is the best way to get all these variables to deliver the best performance for your needs.

Mine is an AWB in the med, so light winds were the problem, and larger genoas are often used on AWBs as a countermeasure to light winds in order to avoid additional sails. The big problem with big genoas, even with foam infills, is that as soon as you need to reef, the sail shape becomes sub-optimal.

Both my boats showed a significant improvement in pointing ability, and no loss of speed going to smaller genoas. The code-zero is a dream in light winds, achieving boat speeds my old genoa had no chance of delivering.

My advice, take your question to a reputable sail-maker who is also familiar with your type of boat and have a discussion about what you are trying to achieve. They should be able to give you a number of options with the pros and cons of all. I've found the ones I used to be very forthcoming and helpful.

 

[adamstjohn]

I went from 150% to 130% when had a new sail made for our 30 ft boat last year and dont regret it.

 

[geem]

Go for 130%. A well made Vectran crosscut genoa of this size will hold its shape for years and provide good power off the wind. Older designs like the Rival are driven by the genoa. I would not go smaller than 130%.

 

[Sea Change]

What's the rest of the sail wardrobe?

On our first boat we inherited a baggy old 150% genoa with no luff padding. It was awful. Apparently fitted by a previous owner to compensate for getting rid of the spinnaker.

We got a new sail made, 125% with foam luff. And picked up a secondhand spinnaker. The boat was transformed!

 

[potentillaCO32]

Home | The Rival Owners Association

Here you go. People on here have been using and improving rivals for 50 odd years or so. Far more likely to get good advice there or the more active facebook groups.

 

[Refueler]

A smaller genny can be an improvement when close-hauled as you can sheet it in closer instead of that big genny bag hnging out over the rail ...

 

[justanothersailboat]

I think it's hard to answer in isolation. If you have a smaller genoa will you run out of jib track length as you furl it? Will you be able to balance the main or will you end up having to reef the main early? It certainly is possible to make a big improvement to a big-genoa boat but there seems to be quite a judgement call in how far to push it.

I did make such a change (on a smaller more basic boat) and it worked brilliantly, but with quite a bit of measurement and calculation by my sailmaker. I don't think I could have guessed my way through that on my own. I changed the main at the same time. I went from 140% to 115% genoa - my initial aim was smaller but now I've used it a bit I think he was right that this was the most change I could get without causing new problems.

 

[geem]

One of the best improvements you could make would be to fit a second furler inboard of the main forestay. You could then have a working jib and a 130% genoa. I watched a Rival 38 tacking up wind on the jib and main with this set up in a stiff breeze. Far superior to a reefed genoa for pointing ability, speed and lack of heel. But it's cost to make this conversion

 

[Sea Change]

There's also an argument in favour of a removable inner forestay with one or more hanked on sails. Wouldn't be great on a larger boat but could work well on a R32.

I had this setup on a 33ftr, with a storm jib and a huge drifter. Never used the storm jib but the big sail was wonderful, and a good complement to the little blade jib that lived on the furler.

 

[Tranona]

One of the best improvements you could make would be to fit a second furler inboard of the main forestay. You could then have a working jib and a 130% genoa. I watched a Rival 38 tacking up wind on the jib and main with this set up in a stiff breeze. Far superior to a reefed genoa for pointing ability, speed and lack of heel. But it's cost to make this conversion

You mean like this in the photo. Exactly what I have done with a "working" jib on the inner and the 130% genoa that came with the boat on the outer. Huge improvement, particularly tacking which was a nightmare with the genoa, and as you say if you furl it down to 100% the shape goes.

 

[potentillaCO32]

Of course the real solution is to do the heresy and lunacy that I am doing and move back to hank on sails.

 

[alahol2]

No one has mentioned a high cut genoa. If you get it right then a full luff, 120% , high cut genoa is a dream to use. With a foam luff it can be furled with virtually no loss of pointing ability and without the need to even move the genoa car once set.

 

[samfieldhouse]

I kept my 150ish% as close hauled in 14kts it’s a dream.
I did however add a removable inner forestay with a hank on 90% laminate jib that is flat and fabulous above 20kts

 

[geem]

....

I kept my 150ish% as close hauled in 14kts it’s a dream.
I did however add a removable inner forestay with a hank on 90% laminate jib that is flat and fabulous above 20kts

We have a Vectron 130% genoa on the forestay furler with a second furler 2 foot back with a 90% blade jib. We swap from genoa to jib at 20/21kts apparent going up wind. No furling of the genoa for upwind work. It has no foam luff by design, as it doesn't need it.
Down wind, we can set both headsails on twin poles or pole out the genoa wing on wing with the main and set the jib on the same side as the main. We are actually rigged like that at this moment and have been for 8 days straight. We are sailing 165° off the wind.

 

[William_H]

My little boat (fractional rig) has hank on sails. I have been surprised how well a no 2 jib (woeking jib) can perform in light winds compared to the larger genoa. Much of my sailing is to windward in tight area so quick tacking is desirable in light winds to catch shifts and of course much sweeter in gusts.
So yes I think large overlap genoa may be more of a hindrance than a smaller genoa on a furler. ol'will

 

[doug748]

In the process of ordering new genoa for our Rival 32 but I forgot to take the size before leaving the boat (in Finland). I have the specs for her but the originals were 150%. Far too big!

We don't do much upwind beyond a close reach so tacking is not the issue; it's more that we go out in strong winds when we need to furl a fair bit away. If we can furl up to 25% before losing a decent shape then both a 120% and 130% would shorten to slightly less than 100% and keep shape.

So: are there any other things to think about or should I just go for the 130%.

Thanks

M

I would go for 125/30% and find a cruising chute for the relatively rare occasions you need a boost off the wind. Avoiding a full length luff means you can adjust the hoist to improve forward vision to suit.

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