Genoa sheet knots or splices?

Norman_E

Norman_E

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My present genoa sheets are 18mm and fitted to the sail with bowline knots. The knots tend to catch on the shrouds when tacking. I am going to change to 16mm rope and am thinking of putting eye splices on them. I know that I will not be able to get the thick part of both splices through the ring in the sail, because two 18mm ropes only just go in together. My idea is to make the eyes about 3 or 4 inches diameter, put one through the ring in the sail and then put the rope through its own eye to secure it, then attach the spliced end of the second sheet to the eye of the first one.

Is this a good idea, or is there a better way to do it?
 
Here's what i use on my boat, i got the idea from an American book i think it was one of Pete Cullers.
Seize a soft eye in the middle of the sheet then take a short piece of stiff three strand rope and seize it alongside the first seizing with the end poking past the eye.
To attach to the sail poke the soft eye through the cringle on the clew and poke the stiff bit of rope through the soft eye.
Pull the eye back and its locked in. It is very secure but can be undone in a flash if you need to change sails best of all you dont have big knots or snap shackles to beat you round the head.
 
various ways to do it ....

back the sail momentarily so it flies across the foredeck when sheet let go and take on other once clew is passing stay ...

fit a pastic tube to stay so it acts like a roller when sheet touches it and you pull in ...

don't heave so quickly on the sheet when sail goes over, especially if you are not backing it ....

use the third rope end through bound eye through clew as another mentions below.

18mm - that's some sheet !
 
get the sheets off in hurry - just trying to think when I might want to do that, even if not in a hurry (I try not to do hurrying /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif ) and can only think of end of season /forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif
Still, if I can't undo the knots, I could always resort to my pen knife / sheath knife / pelican cutter / fire axe . . .
/forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif
 
Not so sure about that, if the genoa is furled they are well out of reach, and if the sail was flogging I would not want to go near it.
Some good ideas on here though. 18mm was way too big but I think 14mm might be too small.
 
The answer is yes and yes. Both methods are satisfactory. I have used both. The soft eye and stiff tail can come out if not exactly right so prefer bowlines and tolerate the catching on the shrouds which can be avoided most times.
 
I use genoa sheets with soft eyes.

I don't need to feed thick lines through the clew as I use a Dyneema ready made rope shackle (Compass 24 stock item) which passes through the cringle - through each soft eye and it's own eye then fits over the turks head knot at its other end and the eye splice then pulls tight to fasten under the knot making it secure, smooth and non-snagging but also easy to remove when needed.

Now I get no hang-ups on shrouds and babystay
 
None whatsoever. I got the heaviest (4T) breaking strain simply as I didn't know what to choose so heaviest was best and only a couple of £ dearer- savings to be had there in the lighter weights.

At first glance the device looks unworkable as the splice eye is smaller, of course ,than the turks head and could not pass over the knot- obviously impossible as it would not assemble.

The eye is in fact an inner and an outer Dyneema braid which one simply pulls apart and the sheathing opens the eye to accommodate the knot and once attached to sail/sheets is eased back to close the eye. Natural tension on the sheets sweats the assembly up really tight.

At first I wondered whether the knot should be starboard of the sheets , or to port or between them- I don't think it matters at all as the whole assembly is so neat but just in case I placed the knot against the clew thus presenting two eye-spliced genoa sheets butting up to each other to offer the smoothest surfaces when passing the babystay.

When winterising before Christmas and wanting to remove sheets/sails etc. I first of all thought that the assembly was so tight that I couldn't dismantle it - but not so, a little working back and forth and the shackle drew apart easily and the only sign of any use was that the strain under usage had blanched the fibres but no discernible physical damage- the shackle looks very much like polyprop but since it is a Liros branded product I trust that it is what it says it is .

So far after one season I'm very pleased with it- if you order one, do note that Compass do not guarantee the colour shackle that they send you but if you make it clear as I did that I wanted a blue one to blend in with the sheets they will probably do their best, as they did with me, to send you what you specifically want
 
I have read this with interest, but am probably being stupid, as I don't see how you attach the sheets to this device.

If it is still with a bowline, surely that is just as capable of snagging on the babystay as a bowline attached directly to the clew, or have I missed the point entirely?
 
Just a thought and not been mentioned by others, there is a right and wrong way for the bowline to lay - the wrong way the bowline will snag on the shroud/babystay /forums/images/graemlins/mad.gif, the right way and it will pass over, /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif no photo but if you tie one in a bit of small stuff yo will see what I mean, I think /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif
 
I thought that, but when I put the sheets on last year I tied both bowlines from the same side, with the result that one laid one way presenting most of the knot to the shrouds, and the other presented less. In the 18mm rope there was quite enough of a lump for either knot to get snagged.

EDIT. P.S. I bought a set of Selma fids at LIBS and have just spliced a piece of braid on braid, and it was easier than I thought. I reckon they will be a good investment.
 
I found thatjib sheets were not lasting long. My knid of sailing involves a lot of tacking.I use cam cleats adjacent to the winch and especially if crew do not put enough turns on the winch the cam cleat can be very hard on the outer braid.
By using a bowline on the jib the point of most wear on the sheet tends to move over a range so increases life of the sheets. Li8kewise I found the point loading on the sheet at the clew can tend to wear/cut the sheet.
I use individual jibs always removed so there is plenty of change of stress point.

Now using a roll up jib. You can have 2 sheets with 2 bowlines. Or you can use one sheet with a bowline in the mioddle onto the clew. This is quite small in terms of fouling rigging when tacking. This is fine but tedious to remove or change the sheet as you thread half of the total sheet length through to make the bowline.

The maxi ocean racers seem to use a soft shackle type device. The sheet has an eye spliced in the end of and a steel pin with knobs on each end passes through the eye. The eye and pin are mounted in an Al tube with the knob ends of the pin protruding sideways. A loop of high modulus rope (spectra or similar. is made by splicing and is attached to one knob and lashed in place. In use this loop goes through the clew and loops back onto the other end of the pin the knob stopping it slipping off. The whole is then covered in a cloth with velcroe so that the look can't slip off the pin (knob ends)
The beauty of this (shackle) is that it is mostly undone or done up with velcroe so is managebale in cold wet fumbling conditions and si very light.
The strenght of the pin and the thi attaching loop determine the strength of the whole.`
Most people around here with masthead rigs however cover the inner stay and side stays with irrigation plastic pipe to allow rope and knots to roll over. olewill
 
1)The genoa sheets each need a soft eye splice.
2)The eye splice in the rope shackle passes through the cringle, and each genoa sheet soft eye.
3)The rope shackle eye splice is then opened further(one part is the inner core the other the outer sheath- this is then large enough to tuck the turks head at the other end of the shackle through that eye, thus forming a continuous fastening.
4)The shackle eye is then closed by pulling the outer sheath up against the underside of the turks head, which makes it impossible to come undone accidentally.

Hope that clarifies


PS If you are about to order new sails then have a look at a Ronstan 'T' ring to replace the standard cringle- a neat but expensive device- possibly heavy though, so light airs or flogging sail/ foredeck work could be issues
 
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