Genoa halyward winch on mast?

[sailorman]

You're correct about the initial clayout but a furling main uses fewer lines than a conventional one. The deck hardware layout is different on O351's shipped with a conventional main. The main reason that the Gen. halliard was relegated to the mast (from the cockpit) was beause I didn't want single line reefing so 4 clutches are used for reefs 1 & 2.

we have horn`s @ the gooseneck to take the luff reefing cringles.

 

[Elemental]

I'd rate a spin halliard as much lower priority than that for the genoa; the latter being used far more often and more in need of tensioning, also a spin halliard at the mast can be handy when dealing with the sail short handed...

Well, that's not a daft idea ... I hadn't really considered the notion that the spin. halliard doesn't get adjusted often. My usual process when using the spin. is to go forward, sort out the lines then have the crew haul from the cockpit. I guess I could complete the haul from the mast myself.

 

[boguing]

The forestay / backstay adjuster do one job the genoa halliard quite another

The OP has a 35ft boat he must​ ​ use a winch to obtain correct luff tension, i use a Lewmar 40

I was being polite re: using backstay!

Winch is not the only way though - a tackle at the luff foot is easy too.

 

[boguing]

Well, that's not a daft idea ... I hadn't really considered the notion that the spin. halliard doesn't get adjusted often. My usual process when using the spin. is to go forward, sort out the lines then have the crew haul from the cockpit. I guess I could complete the haul from the mast myself.

Spin halyard is nearly always best hauled at the mast for a fast hoist - least friction again. Ideally you'd have a camcleat at head height (to stop it running if it fills), which you flip it out of to prepare for dropping. You also need some facility to winch it (cockpit or mast) if it fills before it gets to the top.

 

[sailorman]

I was being polite re: using backstay!

Winch is not the only way though - .

a tackle at the luff foot is easy too

Not on a 35 footer with a furling genoa

 

[dje67]

Sounds like the OP's Bene is similar to my 36cc. I have 3 jammers at the mast; 2 on the starboard side with a Lewmar 8 below for Spin and Uphaul; 1 on the port side with no winch and a cleat for genoa halyard. It is near-impossible to get enough tension on the genoa and the sail shape suffers. I'd like the genoa led back to the cockpit, but no spare hardware at the base of the mast or in the cockpit to take it there. I might swap the genoa halyard and spin halyard over. I only every use the spin halyard for the cruising chute, which has a snuffer, so hardly ever need to winch it once fully raised. I never understood why the genoa wasn't provided with a winch or means of tensioning it properly and I've always wondered how other's manage!

 

[sailorman]

Sounds like the OP's Bene is similar to my 36cc. I have 3 jammers at the mast; 2 on the starboard side with a Lewmar 8 below for Spin and Uphaul; 1 on the port side with no winch and a cleat for genoa halyard. It is near-impossible to get enough tension on the genoa and the sail shape suffers. I'd like the genoa led back to the cockpit, but no spare hardware at the base of the mast or in the cockpit to take it there. I might swap the genoa halyard and spin halyard over. I only every use the spin halyard for the cruising chute, which has a snuffer, so hardly ever need to winch it once fully raised. I never understood why the genoa wasn't provided with a winch or means of tensioning it properly and I've always wondered how other's manage!

[ I never understood why the genoa wasn't provided with a winch or means of tensioning it properly]

In a word- Cost

 

[Spirit of Glenans]

Sea Spray, a winch with something like a 4" drum would do if you're not man enough to 'sweat' it hard enough. If you've got roller reefing, terminating at the mast is quite acceptable as you only need to pull it up once a year.
Sailorman, why do you think the halyard is too small thickness - I can't see any reference to size in the question.

I would have thought that releasing the tension on the genoa halyard, before furling, would be kinder to the sail (likewise the mainsail outhaul).

 

[sailorman]

I would have thought that releasing the tension on the genoa halyard, before furling, would be kinder to the sail (likewise the mainsail outhaul).

Always otherwise with the sail furled the luff tape will be prone to tearing away from the sail as the luff relaxes

 

[Spirit of Glenans]

It is a furler.
I'm very minded to put a winch onto the mast. I do like to adjust the halliard (esp in lighter airs) and having to ffaf about sweating the halliard to re-tension is a pain. I'm also not convinced that I do get enough tension on it for anything like a blow either. The halliard used to be run aft, but a new mast (don't ask...) and a subsequent conversion from in-mast furling to conventional forced a complete deck re-layout the upshot was the genoa halliard was relegated from the cockpit in favour of reef lines (1,2 tack and leech), main halliard, spin halliard, pole uphaul & kicker. Adding additional deck hardware to support the additional line will be very difficult.

Assuming that you do not use the spinnaker single-, or short-handed, you can afford to leave the spin halyard to be handled at the mast by crew, and it won't need a winch as you have it hoisted before the load comes on. You can thenuse the deck gear to bring the genoa halyard to the cockpit and tension it on a coachroof winch.
I instruct on 19' keelboats and they require a winch (size about 4") on the mast to tension the jib halyard.

 

[Borden]

For a 35 footer i think you are using the wrong string for hauling the genoa, it need to be much tighter than you can get by hand alone
that sounds more like a pole uphaul to me

I agree. I can't imagine that the builders of your 35' boat would leave halyard tensioning as a mandraulic process. Either you're using the wrong 'string' or someone has cut and shortened the halyard at some time. Check your class owners forum for some comparisons and tips.

 

[sailorman]

I agree. I can't imagine that the builders of your 35' boat would leave halyard tensioning as a mandraulic process. Either you're using the wrong 'string' or someone has cut and shortened the halyard at some time. Check your class owners forum for some comparisons and tips.

My boat was not built down to price, the OP`s possibly was. I have more winches than you can wave a stick @ :encouragement:

 

[Elemental]

I agree. I can't imagine that the builders of your 35' boat would leave halyard tensioning as a mandraulic process. Either you're using the wrong 'string' or someone has cut and shortened the halyard at some time. Check your class owners forum for some comparisons and tips.

No, no.... my original layout was for a furling main. All halliards led aft. The re-rig and switch to conventional main is what's caused the problem. The original Beneteau conventional main layout had single line reefing for reefs 1 & 2 - I don't like single line reefing (experience has shown it can be difficult to get the reef in properly when the gear is other than brand new) so I've used 4 lines for the reefs rather than two. The halyard is plenty long enough - it's just the absence of deck hardware and clutches at the cockpit that's caused the halliard to stay at the mast.

 

[Simondjuk]

Using the backstay to tension the foresail luff is not a tactic that I've heard of before.

Normal practise is to adjust backstay for mast control, luff tensions for sail control.

A poor explanation on my part perhaps, but I was meaning that I can control sail shape as per the below links (to save me a lot of typing on a tiny phone keyboard), in which North Sails agree with my view that most aspects of genoa shape can be changed with the backstay, including draught position, which becomes less an effect of halyard tension and more an effect of forestay tension, applied by tensioning the backstay, as the sail type becomes lower stretch.

http://www.uk.northsails.com/uk/Sai...handtwistwithbackstay/tabid/7050/Default.aspx

http://www.uk.northsails.com/uk/Sai...ftpositionwithhalyard/tabid/7051/Default.aspx

 

[boguing]

Not on a 35 footer with a furling genoa

That's very odd.

It worked on a 30 footer for twelve years, and a 40 for two. What's special about a 35?

 

[sailorman]

That's very odd.

It worked on a 30 footer for twelve years, and a 40 for two. What's special about a 35?

I Sir do not have a 35 ft boat I have owned my One Tonner for 16 yrs

 

[knuterikt]

No, no.... my original layout was for a furling main. All halliards led aft. The re-rig and switch to conventional main is what's caused the problem. The original Beneteau conventional main layout had single line reefing for reefs 1 & 2 - I don't like single line reefing (experience has shown it can be difficult to get the reef in properly when the gear is other than brand new) so I've used 4 lines for the reefs rather than two. The halyard is plenty long enough - it's just the absence of deck hardware and clutches at the cockpit that's caused the halliard to stay at the mast.

Have you considered another option.
Add a new clutch at the cockpit and associated hardware on deck.
Deck organizers can be stacked if necessary.

The extra hardware will probably cost less than a new winch.

Or

Let one of the lines for second reef share clutch with the spinnaker halyard?
I would still have added hardware at mast base and stacking a deck organizer, and some way of cleat for the spinnaker halyard when not on the clutch.
In preparation for worse weather I would have taken the spinnaker halyard off the clutch and but the second reef line in place after taking in reef no 1.

To make threading the lines easier you can have a threading eye and threading needle for the job
Line with threading needle and eye at end of line

http://i372.photobucket.com/albums/...15A7A2E2-245-00000016D0DA9946_zps9e36c72f.jpg

Threading needle loop is of thin Dyneema line spliced into a loop

http://i372.photobucket.com/albums/...9F856331-245-00000016B539603E_zps62d1627e.jpg

Stacked Deck organizers

http://i372.photobucket.com/albums/oo167/knuterikt/Dyneema/null_zpsa86f4efb.jpg