Generator -v- solar panels

[mocruising]

Two weeks ago we had the misfortune to share a quiet anchorage with a boat that had one of those noisy petrol deck generators, not the first time it happened I might add. This is me talking with a very very quiet diesel set with a silenced exhaust and water separator, that even boats alogside us don't know when it is running. Stick to the solar option to avoid anoying others at least.

 

[GrahamM376]

Two weeks ago we had the misfortune to share a quiet anchorage with a boat that had one of those noisy petrol deck generators, not the first time it happened I might add. This is me talking with a very very quiet diesel set with a silenced exhaust and water separator, that even boats alogside us don't know when it is running. Stick to the solar option to avoid anoying others at least.

Inboard generators can also be more noisy to adjacent boats, than to those on board. I don't see any as a problem, more the time of day or night they are run and the length of time - don't see why some have to start them up after returning aboard half piss*d late in the evening/night.

 

[ccscott49]

Inboard generators can also be more noisy to adjacent boats, than to those on board. I don't see any as a problem, more the time of day or night they are run and the length of time - don't see why some have to start them up after returning aboard half piss*d late in the evening/night.

I have to agree, never run the genny at night! Just not very friendly.
The 3000 rpm ones tend to be noisier than 1500rpm ones, or it may be a different tone?

 

[TQA]

It does not matter how quiet the sucker is if it is upwind of you the whiff of fumes is not what I want to smell as I sit in the cockpit or lie in bed with the hatch open.

 

[CMonster]

A Balancing Act

It's all a balancing act. Power out v Power in v Cash in v Peace and quiet for you and your neighbors, you might like them. We run 2 fridges The biggest consumers, LED lighting and watch the occasional movie on board. We have 270w of solar panels. An aerogen 4 and another with 3 x Aero6 blades, when we are at anchor. A 230 amp alternator for when we are under engine and a 1kw Honda gen. We never need to plug in. In the summer months the solar will do the job. Days are long and nights short. In winter or overcast conditions the solar won't keep up. Wind is a help but unless you are in the Caribbean where it blows at night as well as day, it is not the only answer. The engine is a very powerful gen on our boat, capitalize on that power source when you can. The Honda helps out when all others fail to do the business. Many people go sailing and anchoring to enjoy the peace and quiet. Remember that when you settle in the cockpit in a lovely anchorage. You won't want a generator running, yours or anyone elses!. Towed gens are very effective on long passages as long as the wind keeps you moving.
In 6+ years we have never met a cruiser complaining he has too much power.

 

[royburnham]

I,ve just commented on this post http://www.ybw.com/forums/showthread.php?t=334361&highlight=solar+panels
I left UK with Honda 10eu and very good it is too. I have visited anchored boats close by to ensure not a nuisance but it does use petrol and wher I was anchored for 5 weeks up the Guadiana petrol was not close by....an hours walk and I had my bike stollen in Santander!!! I also use my engine but don't like to do that too much without having in gear doing some work (better for diesels) Now, having some more experience I would agree with various comments and much will depend upon use of electricity and for me not too much of a propblem. I left the shore to get away from the **** on television (even in UK I gave mine away I was so insensed how much time I could waste!!), I do listen to radio, watch films and listen to podcasts on computer. Being a vegetarian I can get away with turning the fridge off if anchored for anytime so have decided 2 x 100watt solar will work for me and may even keep up with the fridge, but could not get to that conclusion before the last 18 months of experience and talking to others.

 

[charles_reed]

To refer back to the OPs original query.

With 328 watts nominal PV capacity, I can run my boat at anchor for about 5 days, @ between 35 and 40N, before having to recharge my batteries @ 12.2V resting.

My calculated usage is about 90ah/24 hours (equally greedy are fridge and computer @ about 40 ah each). That means my PV panels are putting 55-60ah in every 24 hours. They are in series to produce a nominal 24v through an MPPT controller.

The OPs power requirement will depend entirely on his usage, but assuming his requirements will be in line with most liveaboards, the 120 watts PV panel will be totally inadequate and a generator will be necessary - running for about 90'/day.

 

[Caladh]

I manage with 200w of panels plus a rutland 213 wind genny. 480ah of house batteries to bridge the gaps. It has been said many times but it is far more cost effective to reduce consumption than to buy and run generation.
A really well insulated fridge and LED lighting (Those from Sea Rolf are excellent) mean that consumtion is covered by the wind and solar.
The only time that I would have a problem would be sailing for many days continuously with nav equipment and nav lights, I have not yet done this since when the wind dies I start the engine. If going trans atlantic then a towed generator would be my choice regulated by the same regulator as the rutland.

Agree with Gavin. We also have 200w of solar and an Aero6gen which keeps our fridge freezer going, laptop, lights and nav stuff going. 2012 in Greece we didn't have to run the engine at all to keep our 330v battery bank up to charge. We don't use/need power tools or a washing machine (whaaat !!) whilst crusing. As Chris Robb says make sure the fridge is well insultaed and go LED. Gennys running esp. when the owners go ashore in a beautiful quiet achorage, are a PITA.

 

[billskip]

I have to agree, never run the genny at night! Just not very friendly.
The 3000 rpm ones tend to be noisier than 1500rpm ones, or it may be a different tone?

one time a big charter boat was on the pontoon (Siros I think) and had his smelly noisy genny running.

Many protested to the harbour master and to the captain but no action taken.

Well someone went swimming with a length of rope which was attached to a length of chain, and tied it to his prop.

 

[Glyka]

When the Ah I get from my Solara panels are not enough, I find my alternator (producing 70A DC with a Sterling external regulator) more efficient than the combination genny-charger (20A ?).

 

[Boo2]

http://www.windtrap.co.uk/generate-electricity/caravan-wind-turbine-kits/efoy-comfort-140-fuel-cell/

1.5 litres/day of methanol for 6A. Hmm...

Boo2

 

[ccscott49]

one time a big charter boat was on the pontoon (Siros I think) and had his smelly noisy genny running.

Many protested to the harbour master and to the captain but no action taken.

Well someone went swimming with a length of rope which was attached to a length of chain, and tied it to his prop.

That is criminally irresponsible!

 

[NornaBiron]

We don't use/need power tools or a washing machine (whaaat !!) whilst crusing.

We try to keep our cruising life as pleasurable as possible and for us that means not having to spend at least one day a week handwashing clothes, sheets and towels - the biggest drudge we can imagine. Our small washing machine is worth every penny we spent on it, especially as we can run it off the inverter in the summer.

 

[Ariadne]

For my tuppence worth,

We have 570 watts of solar panels (6 x 95W) and a DuoGen to power 6 x 130Ah domestic batt's and a cranking Batt'.

We run a fridge freezer 24/7 as well as running a 240 invertor for about 4 hours a day, and various other 240 things associated with life aboard and two teenagers!

I survived for over 6 months without any other means of power up in Gambia & in Trinidad/Tobago (no alternator!) and although I do have an alternator again I only run my engine to charge about 3 hours a week if it's cloudy. In the Med' with 8 hours + of usable sun in the summer I'd be quids in!

I sold my 2.6 KVa generator last August as with the panels I didn't need it any more - (I don't and I never used it from Jan 2012 until I sold it) and I don't miss it either.

So in my case I'd go for solar

 

[OldBawley]

Solar is great. Although I like all wind driven things ( hang gliders, windsurfers and sail boats ) and have build two wind generators myself, solar is much cheaper and gives more usable Amps.
However, wintering at anchor, even in the Med, no way the low sun shining just a few hours a day can fill our battery bank ( 4 x 130 Ah domestic ) up to 100%.
The solar panels can top up fast up to 90% , but absorption, the most important charging stage to keep your battery’s sulphate free alone takes hours, and in winter there is Max 6 hours of usable sunlight. So, the battery’s are never 100% charged. Result is sulphate and battery´s who last Max three years.
The only way to charge battery’s on a liveaboard yacht ( Using part of the generated Amps just by living on the yacht ) is been connected to mains. That means 24h charging.
Who will have a generator running during the O so important absorption stage, loading just trickles of Amps at a high voltage ?

 

[maxi77]

Solar is great. Although I like all wind driven things ( hang gliders, windsurfers and sail boats ) and have build two wind generators myself, solar is much cheaper and gives more usable Amps.
However, wintering at anchor, even in the Med, no way the low sun shining just a few hours a day can fill our battery bank ( 4 x 130 Ah domestic ) up to 100%.
The solar panels can top up fast up to 90% , but absorption, the most important charging stage to keep your battery’s sulphate free alone takes hours, and in winter there is Max 6 hours of usable sunlight. So, the battery’s are never 100% charged. Result is sulphate and battery´s who last Max three years.
The only way to charge battery’s on a liveaboard yacht ( Using part of the generated Amps just by living on the yacht ) is been connected to mains. That means 24h charging.
Who will have a generator running during the O so important absorption stage, loading just trickles of Amps at a high voltage ?

Mind you running the generators to get the bulk charge in quick then let the sun do the final stages may be a solution.

 

[noelex]

Solar is great. Although I like all wind driven things ( hang gliders, windsurfers and sail boats ) and have build two wind generators myself, solar is much cheaper and gives more usable Amps.
However, wintering at anchor, even in the Med, no way the low sun shining just a few hours a day can fill our battery bank ( 4 x 130 Ah domestic ) up to 100%.
The solar panels can top up fast up to 90% , but absorption, the most important charging stage to keep your battery’s sulphate free alone takes hours, and in winter there is Max 6 hours of usable sunlight. So, the battery’s are never 100% charged. Result is sulphate and battery´s who last Max three years.
The only way to charge battery’s on a liveaboard yacht ( Using part of the generated Amps just by living on the yacht ) is been connected to mains. That means 24h charging.
Who will have a generator running during the O so important absorption stage, loading just trickles of Amps at a high voltage ?

Batteries can be charged up to 100% in winter using solar alone in moderate climates like the Med. The main requirement is that you use less energy than your sources put in.
In winter this can be tough, if you are reling primarily on solar, but it is still achievable, with a larger solar solar array and modest consumption.
During winter in the Med solar power is limited. Wind power is erratic, but sometimes abundant. Nevertheless with solar solar alone we often achieve 100% battery capacity, or at least very close to it.
From spring onwards its rare that we don't achieve 100% battery capacity each day, with a minimum draw of around 75% so our battery life is good, despite a reasonably small battery capacity.

 

[Chris_Robb]

one time a big charter boat was on the pontoon (Siros I think) and had his smelly noisy genny running.

Many protested to the harbour master and to the captain but no action taken.

Well someone went swimming with a length of rope which was attached to a length of chain, and tied it to his prop.

I strongly recommend the humble potato:

In Fiskardo a number of years ago on a small Jaguar 27, the Italian powerboat alongside kept his Genny running late into the evening despite the exhaust being over our cockpit. The Genny stopped miraculously after ramming a large spud up his exhaust - far enough to hide the evidence.

We cleared off next morning next morning - I often wonder how he found the spud later - did he pay an engineer to come a look.

 

[OldBawley]

Agreed, it is possible to charge 100% with solar. Last winter I had to run the engine only 6 times for one hour to bulk load, all else was done by solar and wind. This year, wintering in the same area, last three weeks ware very bad. No clear sunny days, ( we have Chinese polycrystalline panels who only charge half of their rated output when hazy ) and no wind except for some days with 6 to 8 Bf.
When such winds are predicted, I move to a sheltered corner, don’t like bobbing up and down for days, but there, the wind generators have to deal with severe gusts followed by light puffs. Inherent for sheltered anchorages and no good for electricity production.
We use about 30 Ah during the evening and night. Two solar panels producing 8 Ah at noon, starting at 9 O´clock with 2,5 Ah, back to 2,5 Ah at 16 h. That is on a lovely clear sunny day.
Consuming 30 Ah means charging 35 or more to be at the same level again of witch the last 5 or so are charged in absorption and that takes hours. Fast absorption is not possible.
As soon as 14,1 V is reached, our MPPT regulator screws loading down to a trickle, while the Amp- hour counter still has not reached zero. Typicality, our Ah counter reads - ( minus ) 8 Ah when the MPPT already reduces charge to 2,5 A. That indicates slightly sulphated battery’s, witch again is because the 100% is rarely achieved. Vicious circle.
Running the generator at night or early morning followed by absorption load by SP ?? Neeeii.

 

[noelex]

Agreed, it is possible to charge 100% with solar. Last winter I had to run the engine only 6 times for one hour to bulk load, all else was done by solar and wind. This year, wintering in the same area, last three weeks ware very bad. No clear sunny days, ( we have Chinese polycrystalline panels who only charge half of their rated output when hazy ) and no wind except for some days with 6 to 8 Bf.
When such winds are predicted, I move to a sheltered corner, don’t like bobbing up and down for days, but there, the wind generators have to deal with severe gusts followed by light puffs. Inherent for sheltered anchorages and no good for electricity production.
We use about 30 Ah during the evening and night. Two solar panels producing 8 Ah at noon, starting at 9 O´clock with 2,5 Ah, back to 2,5 Ah at 16 h. That is on a lovely clear sunny day.
Consuming 30 Ah means charging 35 or more to be at the same level again of witch the last 5 or so are charged in absorption and that takes hours. Fast absorption is not possible.
As soon as 14,1 V is reached, our MPPT regulator screws loading down to a trickle, while the Amp- hour counter still has not reached zero. Typicality, our Ah counter reads - ( minus ) 8 Ah when the MPPT already reduces charge to 2,5 A. That indicates slightly sulphated battery’s, witch again is because the 100% is rarely achieved. Vicious circle.
Running the generator at night or early morning followed by absorption load by SP ?? Neeeii.

14.1 v is low for an absorption voltage. Are they gel batteries?
You did not state the size of your battery bank, but at around 1.5 - 2%. So when a 200AHr battery is accepting 3-4A the charging shoud be dropped down to float. At this stage the battery will be 90-95% charged.

The AHr counters do need appropriate parameters for battery efficiency etc it sound like yours might be reading a bit low, but its hard to sure without more details.