Generator Power Opinions Sought

[siwhi]

We are currently looking for a suitable boat to take us (a family of 4) for a cruise slowly heading west for a couple of years. Some of the boats we are looking at have inboard diesel generators, which would be ideal, however many do not. Given that our budget is modest relatively speaking, and we would be buying a boat probably made somewhere between 1985 and 1995, 45', £100k ish, I can't see that spending £10k on an inboard diesel generator for an old boat is a sound idea, though we would of course need a power supply. I expect we would have 3 x 100w (or more) solar panels and a wind generator and a reasonable battery bank. We would probably be moving a bit more than average (ie not months at anchor in 1 place), but would use marinas / shore power very little. The main draw would be a fridge and ipad charging.

So in this context, are portable lpg or petrol generators any good? eg. Honda EU20i or similar. http://www.honda.co.uk/industrial/products/generators/portable/specifications.html

I can see their disadvantages in terms of fuel supply, location on deck, noise, cables, fumes, etc. But are they a viable option for liveaboards and are they reliable? Would they work out to be a good option if run for a couple of hours per day for say 3 years (ie 2000hrs+)?

Thanks!

 

[RichardS]

We have an EU20i and there is no doubt that they are very reliable and good for charging batteries when connected through a 240V charger but not so good for water heating. For that we run the engine for 15 minutes.

A couple of hours a day for 3 years will not present a problem provided you service it when required, which is easy.

However, you do need to site them downwind which is easy for us in the Med as that is always at the back of the boat but in tidal waters it might need to be at the bow which is problematic. We have a small CO detector which we put in the nearest cabin to the generator when we are using it.

Although the Honda is quite economical running for two hours a day, which might well be necessary if you don't have much sun, it will consume a fair amount of petrol. We have a proper 20 litre steel jerry can which we decant into a normal 5 litre plastic fuel container as necessary.

There is one cautionary note. When the Honda is sitting there running but unconnected it does sound very quiet. However, don't be fooled. Once it is connected to flatish batteries or, worst case, the immersion heater, the noise really ramps up far more than you might expect. It's not a problem if you are anchored alone but if there are other boats around you it's polite to avoid early morning or evening after say 5:00 when people like to sit in the cockpit to have a drink and a meal. This means you have to plan ahead because if your batteries go flat when you turn the lights on in the evening you don't want to be wheeling out the gennie.

If you can get a demonstration make sure the tortoise setting is not engaged as, without a load, that is misleading. If you engage the "hare" setting you will get a better idea of what to expect.

Richard

 

[Chris_Robb]

Rather than installing a costly generator, I would take a different look at the problem. Reduce your consumption of watts. As a fridge is the main user - you can end up charging all day just to keep your beer cold - perhaps you should think of scrapping the current fridge and rebuilding with the correct amount of insulation. We did this and its so efficient I have not used the inboard genset. We are self sufficient in power with 2 large solar panels

 

[RichardS]

Rather than installing a costly generator, I would take a different look at the problem. Reduce your consumption of watts. As a fridge is the main user - you can end up charging all day just to keep your beer cold - perhaps you should think of scrapping the current fridge and rebuilding with the correct amount of insulation. We did this and its so efficient I have not used the inboard genset. We are self sufficient in power with 2 large solar panels

But I think the OP is talking about cruising in the UK so there will be day after day after day with absolutely no sun.

Richard

 

[Carmel2]

Are you considering a watermaker? If so they need a bit of power to kick them into gear.

 

[siwhi]

Thank you all. They are helpful answers, and encouraging to know you have opted for that set up Richard. Also interesting to note how the noise changes as the unit comes under load. Noise is one of my concerns with this idea. I am a relaxed character by nature, but I know that as soon as I light the barbecue one of my neighbours always decides to mow their lawn and this can disrupt my zen.

The other disadvantages I think we can mitigate a bit.

We would definitely try to improve the efficiency of power consumption - and the fridge would be a big part of that, as well as efficient lighting, etc.

Yes I think we'd need a watermaker. Another topic regarding what to look for in this respect, but Paul when you say they need a bit of power to kick them into gear, I imagine a portable generator would do it? Or I guess we could put the engine on for a bit to fire the watermaker up?

I should have been clearer regarding our plan - we aim to go the Caribbean initially and then further west if we are enjoying it, leaving next summer. Current boat is on the market; shortlist of options for the next one is being drawn up at the moment.

Thanks,

Simon

 

[Strolls]

As Chris says, reduce power. If you have a suitable fridge, you may be able to fit a keel cooler, which will reduce your power use considerably:

• http://www.penguinfrigo.co.uk/fitting-a-keelcooler/
• http://www.penguinfrigo.co.uk/shop/product/e50361z/?phpMyAdmin=vNCe7VLq9Iqlmr91Fbf3ewjErAf

Pete Power has a great little site about Honda gennies. It looks really Geocities but it's packed with good information - he seems to really know his stuff. He reckons:

The Honda EU20i is everything the EU10i should have been. With its tough GX100 engine this is a super little pure sine wave inverter. Of all the suitcase machines I sell the one I worry about the least is the Honda EU20i. Fantastic but pricey.​

He may be able to get you a deal on one.

• http://www.petepower.co.uk/choosing-generators.html
• http://www.petepower.co.uk/New-Honda-generators.html

 

[Carmel2]

You can look at belt driven watermakers.

 

[RichardS]

I should have been clearer regarding our plan - we aim to go the Caribbean initially and then further west if we are enjoying it, leaving next summer. Current boat is on the market; shortlist of options for the next one is being drawn up at the moment.

Thanks,

Simon

Ahhhh .... in that case Chris was right and concentrating on the solar side of things is probably your best bet when choosing and fitting out the new boat. I have the generator in the Med because I have limited solar at the moment. However, I am intending to uprate to around 400W of solar later this year and, having changed every bulb to LED last year, I am hoping that the genny might become obsolete and I might be able to bring it home.

If we are unlucky enough to have a few days without sun I will just run the engines. Although these are no quieter than any other sailing boat, the noise seems to be a lower pitch and much less intrusive than the more frantic tone of the generator. However, that is a purely subjective view from being onboard and one day it would be good to enlist the help of a few other yachtsmen in an anchorage and then run the engines and the generator and ask for opinions about the perceived noise.

Richard

 

[Carmel2]

On noise reduction, if you separate the outlet, ie water below the waterline and exhaust above, its hardly audible.

 

[ip485]

I have a large diesel Genset, and I thought I couldnt do without one when I purchased the boat. I didnt have one before.

Since then I have realised they are noisy. I have been lucky and mine has been reliable, but that is not everyones' experience. Inevitably they are something else to service and go wrong. So I wondered whether I could all but do without the Genset.

I found the first "problem" was "generating" enough power. I had realised that IF you have all the modern gadgets (and I know perhaps many are unnecessary) it is surprising how much power you get through. However, I also found that a Genset is a terrible way of charging batteries. Batteries take a very long time to charge, and Gensets dont like running on a small load.

To be fair Gensets need not be that noisy, and we can hardly hear ours on deck, but they are inefficient and really poor at charging batteries. I have 800 Ah, and having used around half their capacity, its hours of Genset time to bring them up to 100%, whereas the solar pretty much maintains them at that level of charge and even with the autopilot on all night, running lights etc, by the end of the following day the panels will have recharged the bank without resorting to Genset or engine. Its even better at anchor.

In my view the answer to that is solar. Invest and serioulsy think about having enough panels and a good enough controller to produce sufficient power. I am lucky and was able to add nearly 1,000 W which takes care of all my DC power needs. Of course there are alterntives like wind and water generators which if you cant fit enough panels should be considered.

What is wrong with the engine you might ask. Well again it is a pretty inefficient way of charging the batteries - but as a supplementary means invest in the biggest alternator you can - again money well spent, and worth getting as much power out of the engine during the short time you are hopefully running on motor.

The perfect solution. Well not quite. There are a few things that take serious amounts of power. You dont need hot water - but it is rather nice. You definitely dont need a water maker, and 12V water makers dont work all that well, but again they are nice and eat amps.

I have not yet done so, but I will add an Eber water heater. For similiar reasons I think this is a much more efficient way of heating water - and a greater deal more peaceful!

So, in short, I think a far better 'investment' is in solar, a water heater, large battery bank, inverter, large alternator and forgo the Genset all together.

Of course no washing machine, no compressor for the scuba tanks, no air conditioning but who cares.

 

[RichardS]

On noise reduction, if you separate the outlet, ie water below the waterline and exhaust above, its hardly audible.

But portable gennies are, I think, all air cooled.

Perhaps I've misunderstood?

Richard

 

[Tranona]

A portable generator is not a substitute for a proper installed one (which is not easy to install on many sub 45' boats). Think of it just as a useful supplement for such things as running power tools. As suggested better to start from the other end and configure your system to minimise your consumption so that you can function within what you can generate by simple means such as solar.

You will also find conflicting views on the need for a watermaker as they are mostly power hungry and high maintenance. Almost certainly not worth having in the Med where there are plenty of shore based supplies, but become more useful if you have a large crew and want to sail in more remote places.

 

[Carmel2]

But portable gennies are, I think, all air cooled.

Perhaps I've misunderstood?

Richard

Try lobing it in and see..... In builts silly.

 

[KellysEye]

On deck generators are fine for charging but drive any boats near you mad with the noise. One idiot next to us in Bonaire ran one of them at night, I got close to taking a hammer and chisel to make a hole in the hull.

 

[Monique]

Had the Honda on the previous boat.. now have a 3 cylinder Onan with a "ball peen hammer" reliable Kubota engine .. I once left the boat when it was running.

We had a dock power outage for 3 days where were wintering and my neighbour 2 berths over never heard it. Charged batteries, ran the washing machine and provided needed oomph for the electric heaters and one zone of our reverse cycle Heating/AC system.. all at the same time!.

Would not be without one for a RTW. (Opinion

 

[GrahamM376]

We have 200w of solar + an Aerogen4 (which was already fitted) and can manage most of the time living on anchor with fridge running 24/7. Honda 2.0i genny will heat the water (if no sun for shower bags), run the microwave, charge batteries if no sun for a few days BUT, on heavy loads is noisy so have to consider neighbours and not use it evenings etc.

 

[RichardS]

Try lobing it in and see..... In builts silly.

But why are you raising the subject of in-builts when the OP is asking about portables?

Richard

 

[Carmel2]

The man has options

 

[Hadenough]

And portables should be chucked overboard.