General pre-heating coolant/engine oil question

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mil1194

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I’ve been looking at ways of pre-warming either the oil (there seem to be various methods including sump pan heaters - internal or external sump) or by prewarming the water ( Kenlowe system or similar) or possibly even both.

However, if you’ve already got a califorier with a 2kw immersion heater could this potentialally be used in reverse to the intended use and pump the engine water? I’m presuming the engine water pump is used for this though which would stop my plan in its tracks. This plus an oil sump heater could drastically reduce warm up times along with the added benefits.

Am I barking up the wrong tree or has anyone tried something similar or different with acceptable results?
 
Turning the key and starting normally warms them up pretty well ?

why do you want to pre warm......in the UK?

calorifier coolant circulation is via engine pump as you suspected.

Only thing I’ve ever seen first hand is a fuel burning heater on land rovers. they cut in if ambient is below 5C to warm up the engine quicker. I got it to work without starting the engine but then it does have a small separate coolant circulation pump. Thermotop 5 from memory. Temperamental POS ??
 
Mr Googler said:
Turning the key and starting normally warms them up pretty well ?

why do you want to pre warm......in the UK?

calorifier coolant circulation is via engine pump as you suspected.

Only thing I’ve ever seen first hand is a fuel burning heater on land rovers. they cut in if ambient is below 5C to warm up the engine quicker. I got it to work without starting the engine but then it does have a small separate coolant circulation pump. Thermotop 5 from memory. Temperamental POS ??
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Well my thoughts were just that if you could preheat the oil (20L each) / water/ both then when the temperature is about 5deg (like now) then it would significantly aid warmup times and prevent any cold start wear and tear issues.
 
We routinely have sump heaters in refrigeration compressors to prevent liquid refrigerant building up, which could then damage delicate bearings when a compressor starts up. Never seen a boat engine with one, but it would be quite easy to find a suitable heater if say a 1/2" or larger (BSP or NPT) threaded access hole was available. They come in 110 or 240v occasionally 400 v and can either sit in pockets or direct into the oil.

But be very careful with the wattage - 150 w in the confines of most engine bays would be more than sufficient for an engine of at least 4 to 6 cylinders with a sump oil volume ~ 15 - 20 litres, with a suitable stat to turn the thing on and off on the desired temperature, which should be below 65oC.
 
depending on engines and usage, heard of a 20m steel trawler that frequents in our port. Engine has some unbelievable engine hours in the tens of thousands and the engineer (whos a friend) mentioned that they have a very strict policy of circulating and heating oil before starting the engine each time. And we're talking Greek ambient temps and even in the summer...
 
Mr Googler said:
Turning the key and starting normally warms them up pretty well ?

why do you want to pre warm......in the UK?

calorifier coolant circulation is via engine pump as you suspected.

Only thing I’ve ever seen first hand is a fuel burning heater on land rovers. they cut in if ambient is below 5C to warm up the engine quicker. I got it to work without starting the engine but then it does have a small separate coolant circulation pump. Thermotop 5 from memory. Temperamental POS ??
Click to expand...
The first cold morning when you go out and start the Landy and all that steam from the heater is billowing around the front end of the car is a bit of a shock :D

block heaters were an option on the Toyota 4.2 TD diesel, in either 110V or 240V as part of the cold weather package, as is the 24V starter, the car had 12V electrics and 2 12V batteries charged via a split charging system, and then on start up the 2nd battery was switched in series and supplied 24V to the starter motor.
I have the cold weather package with my Range Rover Sport but it has nothing like what the Landcruiser had.
Now my friends ship, it had heaters in the fuel tank to keep the bunker oil fluid to feed that huge engine, he had 3 types of fuel onboard bunker oil, heavy fuel oil and ultra low sulphur diesel, which one he used depended on the controls at the port he was visiting.
 
Trucks and vehicles in cold climates like Scandinavia and North America either park up in heated sheds or fit block heaters. We are talking ambient of -25deg C. Oil, can get pretty viscous at these temps. In the U.K. sea temps will be well above 0 deg C so any boats moored on coastal waters are not going to experience extreme cold. When I was on the River Severn we had an extended frozen period, down to -19 deg C. Boat was frozen in the marina for 35 days, so didn’t bother to start the engines.
 
rafiki_ said:
When I was on the River Severn we had an extended frozen period, down to -19 deg C. Boat was frozen in the marina for 35 days, so didn’t bother to start the engines.
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I didn't even dare step on my boat when it was frozen in 4 inches thickness of ice . What year was that ? Must have been around 2010/11.

Thankfully to date the climate here in the East Midlands has been reasonably mild. A scattering of snow last week didn't last the day and frosts have been nothing to be worried about. Lets hope that continues .
 
MartynG said:
I didn't even dare step on my boat when it was frozen in 4 inches thickness of ice . What year was that ? Must have been around 2010/11.

Thankfully to date the climate here in the East Midlands has been reasonably mild. A scattering of snow last week didn't last the day and frosts have been nothing to be worried about. Lets hope that continues .
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2010 December/Jan. A few boats with direct cooled V8 petrols sank as the ice split the intake elbow, and of course when down when it thawed. Fortunately my boat was fine. 3 tube heaters in the engine room, domestic water drained out. I didn’t disturb her in the ice so no scraping on the hull. It was a worrying time.
 
harvey38 said:
Pre-heaters fitted to my Ford 250HP Sabres, takes about 25mins on shore power to get the blocks up to 40c :cool:
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That seems quite good.

About 15 years ago I had a 4x4 that was a bit of a gas guzzler. I monitored the fuel consumption closely. Despite using the air con whenever I felt the need in the summer the car always did noticeably better mpg in the summer.
Observation of a more modern car trip computer display suggests the same. I dare say its possible a fair proportion of the cost of pre- warming the engine would be recovered by savings in fuel consumption.
.
 
MartynG said:
That seems quite good.

About 15 years ago I had a 4x4 that was a bit of a gas guzzler. I monitored the fuel consumption closely. Despite using the air con whenever I felt the need in the summer the car always did noticeably better mpg in the summer.
Observation of a more modern car trip computer display suggests the same. I dare say its possible a fair proportion of the cost of pre- warming the engine would be recovered by savings in fuel consumption.
.
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I don't know about good, mine are fitted with 2x500w heaters per engine. 2kw accidentally left on by the boat yard for a couple of months cost them nearly £500 in electric
Boat was lovely and warm ?
 
fred247 said:
I don't know about good, mine are fitted with 2x500w heaters per engine. 2kw accidentally left on by the boat yard for a couple of months cost them nearly £500 in electric
Boat was lovely and warm ?
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That's about 35p per hour. So if used ordinarily for half an hour say 20p ?
Leaving any heater on 24/7 could be expensive over a couple of months.
 
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