Gas piping

[MIKE_MCKIE]

Hi all, anyone a recommendation for OD of copper gas piping for the galley please? Believe either 8mm or 10mm??? Need to replace the current flexible armoured hose to comply with survey report.
Thanks in advance
Mike

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[steve_cronin]

8mm will be sufficient for most boat cookers. Isn't that what's already fitted? Some even use 6mm and don't have any flow problems. Watch the armoured bit'a end fittings thery can be damaged easily and the old ones can be a b....r to remove. Both due to corrosion.

Steve Cronin

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[Rob_Webb]

I mostly avoid DIY due to incompetence - and anything to do with gas I simply won't go near - but trouble is, try getting a CORGI engineer down to your boat? Never managed it around Portsmouth.

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[MIKE_MCKIE]

Thanks for replies, will go for 8mm, the armoured stuff don't matter it is all so corroded that it will be renewed as well.
brgds
Mike
ps, what has the Queens dogs got to do with it??

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[Rob_Webb]

CORGI = Council for Registered Gas Installers.

You might find your insurer insists that any gas work done on your boat is done by one of these dogs.

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[Strathglass]

If the gas plumbing was done a few years ago it will be 3/8" pipe. You will probably find that metric pipes will not fit the existing fittings. 3/8" copper pipe is still available.

Iain

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[steve_cronin]

This is hardly a complex installation. Just good practice, appropriate use of "Calor-tite", common sense and Fairy Liquid should be sufficient. After all a yachtsman is supposed to be self sufficient. What does he do if the gas starts leaking 220mls SW of Ushant? Call British gas?

Steve Cronin

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[Rob_Webb]

I'm sure it's not complex per se but anything to do with gas scares the bejesus out of me, not least of all 'cos it's invisible and takes you by suprise. I would love to be more self-sufficient and if cornered would try my hand at most things but don't know what I'd do about an offshore gas issue - go hungry I guess!

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[qsiv]

Just makes me pleased we are all electric - but the new boat can't be, so Lord knows what I'll do to avoid plumbed in gas. I guess it'll either be alcohol or mebbe just a little camping gaz (it's a race boat so food doesnt feature highly!)

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[plombier]

That's handy - I was thinking about setting up a mobile marine gas service in that area.

Looks like it could be the right time to do so.

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[Rob_Webb]

Good idea. And if you do, suggest you start by maiking yourself known to the local boatyards 'cos every time I contacted them they all had the same answer i.e. they struggled to find someone too. Which I think is a bit of a paradox 'cos I reckon that most insurers insist on gas work being done by CORGI-registered profs. and yet they are nigh-on impossible to find (in my experience), hence this is a recipe for trouble if a post-explosion claims investigation unearths some dodgy DIY gas work of the type I would be vervous of doing.


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[MIKE_MCKIE]

Well that was fun, altho I was actually joking about the corgi's!. Don't need to worry about compatability with old system, it's a goner (or will be come Sunday) so will be all new from bottle in gas locker through to galley stove. Also putting a "t" piece in for when I can eventually afford a small cabin heater. I don't mind warming my hands over a cooker hob, but getting the feet up there is a bit beyond me! Since I shan't be telling my insurer that I am renewing the gas line, he can't very well insist, & if he does I'll say that I was 100nm due S of Ushant when the old system failed, so I had to DIM. Lots of Fairy liquid & gas-tite, will be no problem. Can't say I'm over enthusiastic about alcohol stoves, seem to be a waste of good alcohol to me, and electricity is doled out with Fagin like parsimony on my boat.! For Plombier, if I get desperate I'll give you a call!
Thanks for all the comments, very con/in-structive!
Mike (thats my boat on fire/all over the marina/Brighton/S.Coast) McKie

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[steve_cronin]

In over 30 years of boat ownership...

when I have either fitted or maintained the gas system myself I've never had a problem or a leak of any kind because I always use the proper materials. Well that's not strictly true: I nearly DID have a fire once. It was with an alcohol stove which have a tendency to flare up (there is usually a warning label NOT to leave them unattended. In my case this was during a tack when the burner took a gulp of liquid fuel instead of vapour engulfing the kettle in flames which licked the deckhead blackening it considerably. That (original equipment) stove soon got changed for a gas one!

My opinion is that properly installed gas, used sensibly, stored correctly (see Calor website) and maintained efficiently with fastidiousness and disregard of cost or convenience can be and usually IS perfectly safe.

Don't let the C.O.R.G.I. guys fool you. They only became earring wearing white van plumbers (misnoma) because they failed their GCSEs

Their registration is just a licence to print money. I was charged £1700 to supply and fit a new boiler which is on sale at the local merchants for £695 and comes with it's own idiot proof shrink wrapped fitting kit with all the pipes pre-formed. I had to get it done by one of their kind because the whole area was due a gas check due to a faulty main. Nothing wrong with the old boiler but Transco had it's details and we wanted a Combi to save on space. The fitters were here for about six hours and even then you should see the quality of their soldering!

OK if you don't feel competent and again IMO, the complete yachtsman should be like the complete farmer, able to cope with any on-board problem, then TRY to find a fitter who doesn't think he has the right to live like a Spice Girl's husband.

Oh yes, nearly forgot, Just checked with one of the big yacht insurers. So long as the system is fitted COMPETENTLY they don't require it to be done by a dog.

Steve Cronin

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[MIKE_MCKIE]

Re: In over 30 years of boat ownership...

Totally agree, I have been at sea all my life & can as the saying goes, hand, reef & steer. A large part of any shipmasters training consists of learning about ALL the systems that make a ship go, including the engines, plumbing, electrics, radio, radar, accounts, etc. In addition is home ownership for a similar period during which I have done plumbing, electrics, pneumatics, woodwork, building, roofing, windows, and so on ad infinitum, and we ain't blown up, fallen down, flooded, electrocuted whatever yet!!
I consider myself competent in most DIY areas, and hold the old technical expression RTFM, in high regard (Read the f***ing Manual for those unfamiliar with the phrase). The other good one is PPPPPP, (Proper preparation prevents piss poor performance).
All of which makes me sound a right pain in the arse, but I am a firm believer that sailing is all about self reliance, & I get increasingly wound up by the "you can't do that, it needs corgi/riggers/painters/mechanics/nursemaids/nanny state" brigade. In this particular instance I would sooner rip the damn gas cooker out than have to pay someone else to do what I am perfectly capable of doing myself.
I am starting to climb on the soapbox, so will shut up before I upset too many more people.
Cheers
Mike the neaderthal gas fitter to be.
ps. thanks for the info about the Insurance view, I guess that my Masters F/G Cert of Competance should cover it (although some people say that is on a par with a Certificate of Sanity!) do you need it if you are?

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[graham]

Re: In over 30 years of boat ownership...

Mike I think CAlor does information sheets.

You must use bulkhead fittings where pipe passes through any solid partition(pipe passing through a hole is not allowed.)

If you are fitting a "T" for a heater use 10mm up to the "t" then 8mm on to the cooker.(You can buy a T piece that has 10mm going in and 8 coming out.)

fit an isolating valve close to each appliance and also a test nipple close to each.

Dont cap the end of your unused T branch with an isolating valve unless you also fit a short piece of pipe with a cap end on it.

Dont improvise any fittings only genuine BS fittings will be acceptable on a survey.

Some washing up liquid is slightly corrosive so wash it off thoroughly after checking joints.

Common sense is worth more than any ticket in my opinion.(Even Master FG)

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[MIKE_MCKIE]

Re: In over 30 years of boat ownership...

Graham,
Thanks for the details, much appreciated.
As you say, a bit of common sense goes a long way.
ta v m
Mike


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[steve_cronin]

Re: In over 30 years of boat ownership...

Who thought up "using a bulkhead fitting where the pipe passes through any solid partition(pipe passing through a hole is not allowed.)?

The pipe on my boat, built by Bavaria in 2001, has a continuous run of pipe from bottle locker to stop valve in a locker adjacent to the cooker. Is this illegal? With the set-up you suggest I would have seven times two = 14 compression joints to worry about. How is that safer?

Steve Cronin


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[JerryHawkins]

Re: In over 30 years of boat ownership...

It isn't! Solid pipes ARE allowed to pass through bulkheads provided they are protected from chafe by a gromet of some description. Flexible pipes must NOT pass through bulkheads but must use a bulkhead fitting.

I'm no expert in this field but have read all the rules and regs on the subject. Loads of info is available on the "socal" or "calormarine" websites.

Cheers,

Jerry

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[steve_cronin]

Yes...

...that is reasonable.

The only "bulkhead fitting" necessary if the installation is arranged sensibly is the one between the end of the continuous pipe and the wall of the cooker swinging space onto which the flexible pipe is connected anyway.

There could be an arguement also for not having a stop valve fitted in the locker adjacent to the cooker because it also introduces two avoidable compression joints and a brass spindled cock prone to wear and therefore leaking. Furthermore it encourages laziness in offering an alternative to turning off at the bottle EVERY time after use. If the bottle stopvalve leaks the gas just runs overboard (assuming a proper sealed locker)

Steve Cronin

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[victor_meldrew]

Re: Yes...

Calortite has no place in properly installed pipework. The common amateur practice of smearing it round compression joints 'just in case' not only shows the installer is not really sure what he is up to, but is positively dangerous in that it can actually stop the pipe and/or olive seating properly

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