Gas or spirit?

GHA said:
So anyone with a basement shouldn't have gas?
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No just saying that gas in a house bears no relation to gas on a boat. Mind you more houses have been blown up by gas than have boats. I guess that's because there are more houses than boats. In any event the comparison is not relevant to the discussion.
 
AntarcticPilot said:
But for me the clincher is that the baseline CO emissions from a paraffin "roarer" burner are much higher than those from a gas stove; BAS would have moved to gas if it were logistically practical (the increased volume and weight of gas containers makes it unviable). The emissions are still below the level that will set off an alarm, but the point is that you're closer to the red-line, so relatively minor glitches with the burner can increase the CO levels beyond safe limits.
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Do you know if the type of paraffin burners used in a Tilley/Optimus/Vapalux lamp have the same characteristics regarding CO?
If so, I would consider those a greater hazard as they are more likely to be run for longer and with less ventilation, compared to cooking (I certainly like to leave the hatch at least half open).
 
GHA said:
How many people have gas in their houses?
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foeu said:
Irrelevant, unless they have a basement.
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GHA said:
So anyone with a basement shouldn't have gas?
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NormanS said:
Or gas pipes under the floor. Oh heck!
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foeu said:
No just saying that gas in a house bears no relation to gas on a boat. Mind you more houses have been blown up by gas than have boats. I guess that's because there are more houses than boats. In any event the comparison is not relevant to the discussion.
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Gas in houses is mostly piped natural gas which is mostly methane and is sightly lighter than air. Basements in houses using natural gas do not have the same relevance as bilges do in boats using lpg for this reason.
 
You're right, Pete. I exaggerated a little. But if there's a leak, no matter how slight, then eventually you'll get to critical level. Like you, I'm not about to experiement.

As for gas in houses, almost no Aussie house has bilges so leaked gas simply drains overboard. Elsewhere some houses have cellars, and where all sides have the floor below ground level then I guess the owners face the same issue. When I owned a place with just such a cellar, it was nevertheless ventilated to the exterior.

Mike
 
Maintaining a gas systems not rocket science.Why are people that don't know what they're doing so keen to put their fears onto everyone else?
Personally I'd be far more afraid of owning a wooden boat with all there is to go wrong there :rolleyes:
 
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I've cooked on board for years with gas, and I enjoy cooking, so I have sometimes prepared what people may consider quite fancy meals.

I fitted a new gas twin burner hob and grill complete with flame failure device to my last boat when I bought her, and I'd already bought a new hob in preparation do do the same to my new to me boat which had a very ancient Lytham Mariner that the surveyor had condemned.

I was quite prepared to fit the required gas locker and change the hoses and piping as suggested by my surveyor ( and insisted on by my insurers ) - that was until we visited our old boat to take her off the water and tow her home, and I started to unscrew the nearly full camping gas cylinder, and the thing didn't seal ! I hastily but carefully screwed it back on, by now the smell of gas was everywhere. Thankfully there was no one else around, least of all any smokers. We pondered what to do, and in the end we unscrewed the thing and hastily but carefully abandoned ship. It took ages for the cylinder to empty, you could smell the gas a long way away, it being a typically still day in S W France. We waited, and waited, and eventually went and took the cylinder off the boat so we could continue working on de- rigging, leaving it on a table well away from anybody should anybody appear.

Eventually somebody did appear, unsurprisingly a Frenchman, and we warned him not to light up. He seemed completely unconcerned, and said all you need to do is take a screwdriver and push the ball bearing in the gas cylinder a few times and it will probably re-seal itself. I wasn't going to do that...

So, we now are the proud owners of a nice little Origo 3000, which I have perfectly successfully tried out in the kitchen for an evening meal - and we have a new twin burner gas hob for sale.

I won't go gas again. I can live without proper toast.
 
AEMD said:
I've cooked on board for years with gas, and I enjoy cooking, so I have sometimes prepared what people may consider quite fancy meals.

I fitted a new gas twin burner hob and grill complete with flame failure device to my last boat when I bought her, and I'd already bought a new hob in preparation do do the same to my new to me boat which had a very ancient Lytham Mariner that the surveyor had condemned.

I was quite prepared to fit the required gas locker and change the hoses and piping as suggested by my surveyor ( and insisted on by my insurers ) - that was until we visited our old boat to take her off the water and tow her home, and I started to unscrew the nearly full camping gas cylinder, and the thing didn't seal ! I hastily but carefully screwed it back on, by now the smell of gas was everywhere. Thankfully there was no one else around, least of all any smokers. We pondered what to do, and in the end we unscrewed the thing and hastily but carefully abandoned ship. It took ages for the cylinder to empty, you could smell the gas a long way away, it being a typically still day in S W France. We waited, and waited, and eventually went and took the cylinder off the boat so we could continue working on de- rigging, leaving it on a table well away from anybody should anybody appear.

Eventually somebody did appear, unsurprisingly a Frenchman, and we warned him not to light up. He seemed completely unconcerned, and said all you need to do is take a screwdriver and push the ball bearing in the gas cylinder a few times and it will probably re-seal itself. I wasn't going to do that...

So, we now are the proud owners of a nice little Origo 3000, which I have perfectly successfully tried out in the kitchen for an evening meal - and we have a new twin burner gas hob for sale.

I won't go gas again. I can live without proper toast.
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Couldn't you screw the cap in rather than just let it empty ?
 
BabaYaga said:
Do you know if the type of paraffin burners used in a Tilley/Optimus/Vapalux lamp have the same characteristics regarding CO?
If so, I would consider those a greater hazard as they are more likely to be run for longer and with less ventilation, compared to cooking (I certainly like to leave the hatch at least half open).
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They are basically the same, so the background CO emitted will be similar. They aren't used in Antarctica, so I can't be too specific, though. However, the main hazard (cooling the flame with a cold pan) isn't present, so they probably pose less of a hazard overall, unless badly adjusted.
 
Nicholas123 said:
Not true.Natural gas rises & there is also the issue of constituent parts/relationship to air.
If you plunged a match into a basement (or bilge) full it would'nt explode.The percentage of gas/air relationship has to be just right or you do not get combustion.
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Actually natural gas escaping will often cool as it expands adiabatically when it escapes from a pipe, leading to a potential for filling cellars with a mixture of air and gas.
Just as air (or any gas) gets hot when you compress it in a bicycle pump, it cools when it expands.
Gases naturally mix irrespective of their density, otherwise all the oxygen in your house would be on the floor and the nitrogen on the ceiling.
But any cold gas expanding from a leak will take time to diffuse into the warmer air around it.
Even leaking hydrogen can be dragged down by the air it mixes with cooling.
 
vyv_cox said:
I have no statistics to back this up, but based upon my reading in the yachting press it seems to me that far more people die by falling overboard, being hit by the boom, keels failing, overwhelmed by weather and several others than do by exploding gas. The risk is very low indeed by just being as careful and sensible as any long term yacht owner would be.
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Very sensible words Vyv.
 
have no statistics to back this up, but based upon my reading in the yachting press it seems to me
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...that there are many risks, some considered small, and others not so. Each individually may not amount to much, but added all together they comprise quite a significant likelihood of something about to spoil your whole day. It is generally accepted that the sensible way to proceed is to work to minimise each identifiable risk so that the aggregate remaining is, overall, reduced quite a lot.

Isn't that why we have e.g Lifejackets? Don't we choose when to wear them and when not? Isn't that why we set depth alarms at e.g 20 metres and not 2m...?

It's beneficial to have a sealed self-draining gas locker, but not clever if other kit stuffed in there - 'cos there's space' - can block up the drain holes. It's beneficial to have Coded supply hose that's well in-date, but not if it passes through several GRP/ply bulkheads without protective grommets, and where it cannot easily be inspected.

I've sailed on many boats, over the years, with gas systems that were fine when they were installed. Many of those boats had systems where the 'bits' had deteriorated with years of use and not been rectified to 'New Condition' - one had a bottle-mounted regulator so corroded it could not be turned off.

Seems to me that there are other boats around with system faults similar to the 'Lord Trenchard' - accidents just waiting for a place to happen.
 
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