Gas Oil Question for Nigel Luther

[Guest]

Red is normally based on 0.2% sulphur Gasoil .....

Cars are set for 0.005% (50ppm) Sulphur gasoil ..... the City Diesel as some call it.

The two are different animals from same base stock.

Of course all diesels will run on it .... but you'll be a)breaking the law, b)causing Sulforous emissions that again are unlawful depending on the vehicle it is used in.

 

[Guest]

Re: My answer !!

If you are using gasoil based Heating oil --- this will run OK in literally any marine diesel.

As to tax's etc. There are preferential pricing allowed by Govt. for different uses and you will cross the line on this - creating a legal case to be answered if caught. It is not so much the VAT, but the tax levied additional to VAT that is the problem ......

As to Parafin .... beware of what type of parafin .. some have significant levels of Parafinic Wax. Best to use clean Kerosine ... same type as put in lamps .... commonly termed Lamp Oil !! This is good grade Kerosine ... check container for correctness though in case some enterprising supplier substitutes !!
The amount necessary is very small ..... a cupful in a tank will do it !!
<P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1>Edited by nigel_luther on 27/09/2002 12:28 (server time).</FONT></P>

 

[Guest]

Deiesel engines ...

Essence of Old Socks will run a diesel !!

Its all down actually to size of injectors and atomisation.

Luboil with a lighter fraction added will work, as long as you can compress it enough and also have a low enough ignition temp.

But the engine will most likely give out shortly after !!

Cooking oil same case !

It can be done that if you run out of gasoline in a car ... bottle of scotch / vodka will get you to the petrol station !!!!

 

[Guest]

Rapeseed oil / Sunflower oil etc

Common use actually ..... this is Ecological Diesel, represents about 0.5% of European stock at present I believe.

Germans and others have developed this and it is very good as well.

Entire crops when not suitable for 'food' markets get sold into the alternative fuel market ......

Brazil actually markets acohol based Gasoline ...

 

[Guest]

Enterprising persons !!

Not so long ago a UK farmer tried patenting a new concept .....

Actually the idea has been used in some form by various Councils in Uk for many years !!!!

Converting sewage into methane based fuel to run diesel engines / even if its methane gasoline engines.

He was using chicken shit from his broiler houses ..... but he tried to incorporate the production plant into the system - in the boot !!!!! Ran for a few 100 yards and then stopped to boil some more !!!!! Bit of a crappy idea really ....

 

[Avocet]

Re: Enterprising persons !!

I seem to remember that my little Suzuki 2.2 outboard came with a limited warranty if used "commerically" on "gasohol". I gather this is the stuff they sell in Brazil, part gasoline part alcohol. Does this mean it's not too good for an engine?

 

[Johnjo]

hUMMMMMMMM
All very interesting Nigel,
But what do I use for frying me chips in?
Mike

 

[chippie]

A frypan?

 

[AlexHall]

Maltese Buses

Hi,
In Malta, bus drivers pastime is getting their old buses to run on the cheapest mix possible.

In the early days it was Kerosene/oil mix with one tank every 5 or 6, filled with diesel. The authorities, to clamp down increased the price of Kerosene to the same as diesel after many years to prevent this. But the many household which use the stuff for Kerosene/paraffin heaters had serious repercussions. So the introduction of even cheaper Heating oil some years back.
The bus owners/drivers suitably found a use for this in combining it with about 15% diesel and about 4%petrol!
The combined "new" fuel bill works out cheaper than purchasing diesel by about 50%.
This was told to me by one in the know.
The down side is that the engines smoke slightly more than they usually do and the fuel smells different.
The authorities are now trying to introduce spot checks and dip the tanks.
The engines in question are 4 and 6 cyclinder, British engines (Perkins, Lister)predominate but with a smattering of US(Dodge, Chrysler) and French(Peugeot). The buses are from the late 30's up to the 60's.

The rings and liners are only replaced when the people onboard complain to the authorities and the authorities decide to investigate.

 

[Avocet]

Re: Maltese Buses

Not quite the same subject but does anyone have any experience of running "Biodiesel"? I have a friend who is interested in doing this - I gather it's a mixture of methanol and old cooking oil. Are there any long term disadvantages? Lack of sulphur is one possibility but has anyoe had any other problems?

 

[Trevor_swfyc]

Re: Low Sulphur Diesel

Having worked in both lubricants and main laboratories for a very large oil company for twenty years. I would welcome the introduction of low sulphur red diesel ( ie untaxed) as we are currently using a lower quality product which is far cheaper to produce and when burnt produces far more sulphurous polutants which are bad for the engine and the environment.
Yes the sulphur is a lubricant but the low sulphur RV GAS OIL has an additive which overcomes this problem. I would gladly pay 5p a gallon more as the exhaust fumes which we breath in when going down wind are noticably less odourous on a trial that I carried out.
Tax, an amphibious vehicle would have to have two tanks one for road use tax paid and one for marine use, or use tax paid for both marine and road, or pay a hefty fine and lose the vehicle when caught on the road.
Anbody taking a boat to a country where tax is paid on marine diesel should be aware of the restrictions regarding carrying / importing red diesel. I would recommend putting any spare diesel for the crossing into the boats diesel tank prior to entry.
The question are heating gas oil and agricultural gas oil the same? the answer is no. Which is a different question to "will the engine run on it" which is often asked.
Anybody got any thoughts on "Light Dues"
Which will be yet another tax!.
Happy days!
See Ya

 

[Guest]

If anything like my chips ..... a bit of diesel won't go amiss !!!

 

[Guest]

Re: Maltese Buses

Not uncommon ..... you should see some of the concoctions they get up to out here !!!!!

As I posted to another .... petrol can be as little as 30 - 35% actual petrolout here, with rest made up of various 'components' .... still passed as 95 UL !!

The story about raising price of kerosine reminded me of the Baltics raising the price of MTBE .... the octane enhancer used after lead levels were seriously reduced....... Companies were adding fantastic amounts to all sorts of crap - to produce a useable product ...... it then became more expensive than proper 95E ....... so they turned to other ether based products ..... the 'battle' still continues today !!

 

[Guest]

Re: Maltese Buses

Biodiesel is normally based on non-saleable Veg / Grain oil ... such as Rape-seed / Sunflower oils. It is a perfectly useable product and currently is marketed in Europe - mainly Germany. It does need care in making sure lubricity and other factors are taken care off by additives. The quantities available and produced are not really competition for traditional diesel ......

 

[Guest]

Re: Enterprising persons !!

If produced and kept in spec .... it is perfectly OK ...... but knowing the sort of people that get involved in the business - no-one can guarantee quality ....... I would even question some european quality specs ..... I wouldn't be in business if it was ALWAYS good !!!!

 

[Guest]

Additives + ASTM

Lubricity additives - excellent short term solution ....... some are good for long-term, but unfortunately there are manufacturers / suppliers out there cutting good additive with crap blend stock to save money and increase profits. This then produces a short term good product, increases acidity in the diesel and after a storage period loses lubricity benefit, but leaves the acidity etc. The Polymer is still left in the diesel with as yet unknown effects.

If anyone wishes to argue about it - I was an operator of such additives alongside my core Petrochemical testing / inspection business. I stopped it - due to unexplained problems with certain additives ....

If anyone is really interested in Fuels and specs / types etc. :

I refer all to a good general read, OK its limiteed but gives good insight into the subject .......

ASTM Manual on Significance of Tests for Petroleum Products by George V. Dyroff.

It is a book that goes across the spectrum and explains why certain characteristics prevail, it explains the differences of various heating oils and gasoils (diesels) etc. etc.

It is the laymans guide to Petrochems..... and actually untechnical enough to be readable !

 

[AlexHall]

Veg Oil Fuel

A delivery I did in 92 was of a catamaran from Malta to St. Lucia.
The cat was appropriately called Planet Earth, she had two modified Yanmar's to run on veg oil. We bought oil in 20litre drums from a hotel catering firm!! Cheap. The engines ran very well, needed much heater to start when very cold, hardly visible exhaust smoke and when we ran for extended periods we could actually mildly smell the stuff as though one was frying chips. Never had any problems though.

I understand that in the US the owners eventually had problems replenishing the stuff, which i find very strange!!! The boat was built in Germany by a fanatic, the boat eventually broke up and sank when she ran aground. Pity, she was nicely put together and fast.

 

[vyv_cox]

Re: Enterprising persons !!

Aluminium inlet manifold corrosion has been a big problem for Brazilian fuels. I'm not sure what the outcome has been but I know there was a lot of research on the fuel about 10 - 15 years ago.

 

[Guest]

Please note ......

Soon I shall make a post that has a leads and info ... as I am sorting through various journals and trtade bumph to define specs in a general way for all to maybe understand ..... it may be via a web-site or some other medium .... as the forum possibly couldn't handle the total text.

Kim .... can the Fuel Price Forum be used .... just an idea ?? or is that too obscure a suite to actually get the 'hits'. As said though it will take time and I will try and pass answers / opinions in the meantime ....

BUT please appreciate that some do not agree with my statements and I am also not always right .... I'm human like everyone else !!!! But I hope that I can ease the strain and help some of those who need it .... others who are interested in this vital area.

So fingers crossed and hopefully not too long before first notes hit the 'net ......