Gas locker lid.

[Graham_Wright]

Does it need one?

I understand all published about drains and location but my locker is underneath the cockpit coaming and access to the shut off valve is needed through the top.

I have a solenoid valve but it is nice to be sure.

 

[VicS]

Does it need one?

I understand all published about drains and location but my locker is underneath the cockpit coaming and access to the shut off valve is needed through the top.

I have a solenoid valve but it is nice to be sure.

The BSS seems to make no mention of a lid https://www.boatsafetyscheme.org/media/180428/bss guide 2005 complete web.pdf only that the locker must be gas tight up to the level of the top of the
cylinder valves or other high-pressure components.
IMHO it'll be next to useless without some sort of lid

A loose fitting lid could satisfy the above requirement. Surely if you can get a gas cylinder in and out you can fit some sort of lid ?

This is mine

 

[MagicalArmchair]

Well, Gas sinks soooo gas won't be the problem if it has a drain. The BSS seems more worried about falling jazz.

Mine doesn't have a lid as such, but the cockpit locker lid itself covers and protects it. My locker is stainless, sheathed in fiberglass vented into the cockpit (so it can vent out through the cockpit drains)

The BSS says:

7.4.3 Are LPG cylinders in a locker protected against falling objects?
Check for the presence of a lid or cover on all top‐opening cylinder lockers. If not present check that the cylinders, regulators and associated equipment are otherwise protected.

Top‐opening LPG cylinder lockers must either have:
• a lid or cover, or
• cylinders, and other LPG system components must beotherwise protected against falling objects.

https://www.boatsafetyscheme.org/media/268789/ecp-private-boats-ed3_rev2_apr2015_public_final.pdf

 

[Motor_Sailor]

. . . . vented into the cockpit (so it can vent out through the cockpit drains)

Unless your cockpit drains vent above the waterline on all points of sail, then that isn't an acceptable way of venting a gas locker. Generally venting to the cockpit is only acceptable with open transom cockpits.

VicS's gas locker looks to be in a side cockpit locker. Having these drain above the waterline on all points of sail and heel, again is often very hard to arrange.

Without a reliable, above waterline drain from the lowest part of the gas locker on all points of sail and sea states, then a gas locker (including the lid) would have to be 100% gas tight which is very unusual.

 

[[163233]]

Can flexible low pressure hose from the regulator come out over the top of the box or do you have to have a bulkhead and hard pipe outside it?

 

[VicS]

Unless your cockpit drains vent above the waterline on all points of sail, then that isn't an acceptable way of venting a gas locker. Generally venting to the cockpit is only acceptable with open transom cockpits.

VicS's gas locker looks to be in a side cockpit locker. Having these drain above the waterline on all points of sail and heel, again is often very hard to arrange.

Without a reliable, above waterline drain from the lowest part of the gas locker on all points of sail and sea states, then a gas locker (including the lid) would have to be 100% gas tight which is very unusual.

The gas locker drain need not be from the lowest point provided empty space below it is filled with an inert material. Mine has so little space aroun the gas bottle I have not bothered about that

The locker can drain into the cockpit provided gas can drain from the cockpit ( mine needed an additional cockpit drain exiting above the waterline) and not enter the boat's interior.
I did think about a drain from the locker going under the cockpit sole and out through the transom though.

Very difficult to retro fit a locker in a small boat and end up with all the Tees dotted and Is crossed

 

[VicS]

Can flexible low pressure hose from the regulator come out over the top of the box or do you have to have a bulkhead and hard pipe outside it?

FWIW the copper pipe comes through the side of my locker , just above ??? the top of the cylinder, and is sealed into the side of the locker. It terminates with a compression Fulham nozzle.

If you use a bulkhead fitting you can bore out the land in the centre so that the copper pipe passes through it with being cut. Only one compression olive and nut is then needed to make a gas tight entry/ exit.

If I were making the locker now that is how I would make the exit for the gas pipe.

 

[Motor_Sailor]

Very difficult to retro fit a locker in a small boat and end up with all the Tees dotted and Is crossed

Certainly is! That's why it's important to focus on what a gas locker is trying to achieve and the physics of it doing so, rather than complying with the minor details from the inland waterway's regulations.

One recent change to the best practice is the drain hose should be 19mm hose as it's less likely to get blocked by erroneous water or crap in the tube.

 

[Seajet]

On the A22 the original cooker had the gas bottle hung underneath as a gymbal weight; I think these type of cookers are illegal now and I never fancied the idea.

Having seen a powerboat explode via leaking gas, and had a fire on another boat with a ruptured hose, I have a somewhat healthy respect for gas.

I now have a ' gas box ' just aft of the bridgedeck, vented below and to the sides so any gas goes into the air or down the cockpit drains; I am also cautious to the point of paranoid to turn the valve off after every use -it's easily within reach from the cabin.

The gas locker has turned out very handy, nowadays for a bucket and winch handles alongside the gas bottle; I used to carry double the gas but find I don't need so much nowadays with so many cafe's & pubs doing breakfasts etc.

Another option might be to fit a glassed - in bucket under a stern quarter corner of the boat, with a heavy duty hatch allowing fitting the gas bottle, and a drain for any leakage through the transom.

 

[rogerthebodger]

Vic

I can remember reading somewhere that a LPG locker must be able to prevent fire from getting to the gas cylinder for up to half an hour.

Have you seen what happens when a LPG tank is heated and ruptures.

 

[mattonthesea]

What I was going to say. The lid is only necessary if it is to stop damage from above

 

[colind3782]

Interested in the comments talking about solenoid valves for the gas supply. A search on ebay comes up with a bewildering array so could anyone recommend a suitable device for a sailing boat gas installation. It would certainly make isolating the supply easier on my boat.

 

[VicS]

Interested in the comments talking about solenoid valves for the gas supply. A search on ebay comes up with a bewildering array so could anyone recommend a suitable device for a sailing boat gas installation. It would certainly make isolating the supply easier on my boat.

This is what Socal offer

http://www.socal.co.uk/catalog/product/view/id/3809/s/nereus-powersaver-12-24v-remote-gas-valve/

Look elsewhere for similar valves ( eg BES ) with the power saver feature. Ebay if you must.

The remote valve only shuts off the low pressure gas supply and although possibly a useful accessory should not be seen as an alternative to closing the cylinder valve when gas is not in use.

 

[Little Dorrit]

If you use a bulkhead fitting you can bore out the land in the centre so that the copper pipe passes through it with being cut. Only one compression olive and nut is then needed to make a gas tight entry/ exit.

If I were making the locker now that is how I would make the exit for the gas pipe.

That's what I am planning to do I'm surprised that this is not a standard fitting.

 

[colind3782]

This is what Socal offer

http://www.socal.co.uk/catalog/product/view/id/3809/s/nereus-powersaver-12-24v-remote-gas-valve/

Look elsewhere for similar valves ( eg BES ) with the power saver feature. Ebay if you must.

The remote valve only shuts off the low pressure gas supply and although possibly a useful accessory should not be seen as an alternative to closing the cylinder valve when gas is not in use.

The gas is always turned off at the bottle when not in use. The isolating valve for the cooker is in an awkward position and difficult to reposition. It would be easier to replace it with a solenoid and have the switch handy.

 

[VicS]

The gas is always turned off at the bottle when not in use. The isolating valve for the cooker is in an awkward position and difficult to reposition. It would be easier to replace it with a solenoid and have the switch handy.

If you only have one appliance there is no requirement to fit a local isolating valve

 

[colind3782]

If you only have one appliance there is no requirement to fit a local isolating valve

Unfortunately, the surveyor (don't get me started on surveyors!) recommended that it be moved to a more accessible location in his report and the insurers insist I comply with all his recommendations

 

[rob2]

If you use a bulkhead fitting you can bore out the land in the centre so that the copper pipe passes through it with being cut. Only one compression olive and nut is then needed to make a gas tight entry/ exit.

Another option (which may be an improvement?) would be to replace the olives with rubber o-rings or short sections of rubber hose mimicing the dimensions of the original olive. This would hopefully improve the protection of the continuous pipe from vibration and chafe.

Rob.

 

[Graham_Wright]

The only space I can find for my bottle is in the coaming at the top of the deep cockpit locker. The designer, Ian Anderson (RIP), showed bottles stowed on a shelf near the bottom of said locker. That was before the regulations tightened up. In the intended location, it is possible to arrange the drain above the heeled waterline.
As it is impossible to lift out the bottle from there, my box will hinge allowing horizontal extraction. With a hole in the inboard side of the coaming, it is possible to shut off the gas at the bottle.
The drain hose will exit the box near and in line with the hinge line and I don't believe the resultant 90° twist in the drain hose will cause a problem.
I shall stow a spare bottle in the anchor locker probably slung under the deck head.
Thanks for all the reassuring replies, it is always an interesting topic!

 

[Graham_Wright]

Addendum. My propane cylinder has a side entry. A conventional regulator screws in and accepts a hose which then, probably executes a right angled turn. That combination increases the space required in the box quite considerably and is wasted space.

I discovered yesterday on ebay, a variety of regulator that terminates in a threaded female connection allowing a threaded elbow connecting to a solenoid valve and hose hanging downwards (or rising perhaps). This is a considerable space saver. I have the same space problem in our camper so have ordered two.
Link;- http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Gas-LPG-P...004089?hash=item2a43ac7cf9:g:3scAAMXQgyZSBi7R