Gas installation query

Shuggy

Shuggy

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When I had the boat surveyed the gas installation was (surprise surprise) condemned. I'm currently upgrading it all and have been making a fire-retardant gas locker & drain etc etc. I am now turning my attention to the piping. It is currently a 3/8" unbroken run from the locker to a compression fitting at the cooker.

I've been told that I need to put proper bulkhead fittings in at every bulkhead (there are 4). At the moment the pipe just goes through drilled holes in the wood. Now my view is that there are currently 2 connections - beginning and end. If I put compression fittings in I'm introducing 8 new points of leakage, 2 at each fitting.

The question is - is there a recognised method of using rubber grommet-type fittings at each bulkhead, or do you have to cut the pipe & use compression fittings? It seems daft to cut pipe that doesn't leak just to comply.

The only thing I can find having done a search is from the recent gas locker thread:

___
if a bulkhead fitting is used to take the copper pipe out of the locker or through any other bulkheads it is poosble to drill out the "land" in the centre and thread the pipe through it without cutting and introducing more joint in the pipe than absolutely necessary
___

...so I guess this is an option as I could replace the whole pipe run.

Thanks.

Shuggy
 
Who told you that?

[ QUOTE ]
I've been told that I need to put proper bulkhead fittings in at every bulkhead (there are 4).

[/ QUOTE ] I reckon you've been misinformed. Unless for some reason your insurers insist on it, there's no need for bulkhead fittings where a continuous metal pipe goes through a wooden bulkhead. Of course, there is some potential for pipe damage over time with abrasion, so you might like to add a grommet or similar protection.
 
I know the bss now requires a continous run of pipe from locker to appliance with a tee off as and when reqd. Each appl should have an isolation tap and a test point in the system. The continuos run obviously means "grommit" type fittings through bulkheads, tho the norm around here is the pipe lagged with a piece of rubber hose where it passes through each bulkhead. Hope this may help. Cheers, Bob
 
This continues to change with the wind.

Most recently, a rubber grommet seems to be acceptable - eg one of the compression glands by index marine.

The requirement is that the pipe is able to be inspected along it's <u>entire</u> length, and protected from chafing (eg against the bulkhead or other corners).

A bulkhead compression fitting would satisfy this, but so also would an oversized hole, or a dismantlable rubber grommet.
 
[ QUOTE ]
if a bulkhead fitting is used to take the copper pipe out of the locker ....etc

[/ QUOTE ] That's something I wrote (although it is not my idea) to which I will add that you can even cut off one of the unions if space is at a premium and still have a gas tight exit from the locker.

The point about other bulk heads is that you need a bulk head fitting to maintain water tightness if that is an issue but apart from that my understanding is that they stop chafe, and of course support the pipe. If I am right then a good sized hole with the pipe well supported so as not to touch the sides should suffice.

I understand that gas pipes in buildings should be sleeved where they pass through walls and floors.

Read the BSS again carefully as it may be acceptable to sleeve with a short length of plastic pipe.

I agree entirely that it is stupid to introduce two extra jonts with a potential to leak at every bulk head.

Do you need a pipe as large as 3/8" wouldn't 1/4" or 5/16" be adequate.
 
I use cheap electrical glands in plastic, through bulkheads, {B&Q, Wickes} the rubber bit gives some flexibility. I recently re piped the gas on my boat, it was last done in 1975, there were no grommets, few fixings, no leaks and no sign of wear through bulkheads. You do need a gas tight bulkhead fitting where the pipe leaves the gas locker, and shut off valves at each appliance.
 
I have just installed my gas system.

It uses 3/8"pipe.

I have used two compression bulkhead connectors. But I through drilled them (still used olives and pvc tape etc) and passed one single piece of 3/8" copper pipe from inside the gas locker to beside the cooker.

Between the two compression fittings the copper pipe is protected with 1/2" clear PVC pipe. This allows inspection of the pipe over all it's length.

It also passes through a third bulkhead but here it is sheathed in the PVC pipe and the whole lot passes through a plastic skin fitting.

Iain
 
I very strongly disagree with the bulkhead fittings, because each one will have compression fitting which is a potential leak point, as against a single run of copper pipe which will have no potential leak point if properly installed.
I would suggest that you Google "Corgi" and speak to their technical department, before you take any action at all.
 
Wow! That's the fastest most comprehensive set of responses I've ever had. Thanks all. I think I will let common sense prevail and use rubber at each bulkhead which means that I don't need to replace a perfectly good pipe run and can concentrate on a shut-off valve and a bubble tester instead.

Shuggy
 
[ QUOTE ]
Read the BSS again carefully

[/ QUOTE ] I just followed my own advice. The problem that the BSS addresses is chafe caused by metal bulk heads and it says that where the pipe passes through metal bulkheads it should be protected by sleeves, grommets or bulk head fittings. (section 7.8.2)

Cable glands mentioned elsewhere are an excellent idea IMHO but assuming you do not want to remove and replace all the pipe you may be able to find some suitable grommets that you cut, slip over the pipe and fiddle into the hole with a dab of "superglue" to refix the cut. Sleeves cut from plastic pipe and slit lengthwise will be easier though. Some cable ties will hold the slit closed and secure them to the pipe or you could try some of that split sleeving that is sold to fit over the standing rigging to protect the sails and sheets. But really nothing should be needed through wooden bulk heads

Also note that the b/h fitting to exit the gas locker is not stricly required if the exit is above the cylinder valve and all hp components. Personally I think that it would be daft not to use a b/h fitting what ever height the exit is ( Must modify mine sometime in that respect!)
 
G'day Shuggy,

I am amazed that you don't just get a gas fitter in to certify the system installation.
Also amazed your insurance company does not insist on a gas certificate; or do you find all this out 'after' you have been burnt to the waterline.

Avagoodweekend......
 
Oldsaltoz. I don't recall stating that I wasn't going to get it tested but thanks for the 'advice'. You seem to be assuming that I don't have a degree of common sense and the tone of your post was, frankly, a bit patronising.

I will take your 'advice' on board and will do my best not to be 'burnt to the waterline'.

Shuggy
 
G'day again Shuggy,

My apology if my post sounded a bit patronising, this was not my intention. It's just me and my great respect for the current situation with regard to what you can and can't do and just how much the insurance industry is getting away with by not giving us all the information until we have claim.

Avagoodweekend......
 
re the testing. there are two tests.
the first is done with air at above the normal working pressure and connection is made to the system without the regulator.
The second is done with gas at a bit less than the normal pressure (obviously with the regulator and bottle all connected). For this it is neccessary to attach a manometer gauge. To facilitate that you might like to include a "test point" in any alterations you are making. See bes.co.uk to see what i mean by test point
 
Perhaps you did not understand my explanation of how I fitted the gas piping.

I have one continuous piece of pipe from the bubble tester inside the bottle container to the gas valve beside the cooker.

I have used drilled through compression fittings instead of gromets for going through bulkheads. By fitting olives and nuts to those fittings the pipe is securely held in position as it passes through them.
But I have not cut the gas pipe into short lengths to fit it.
The less breaks one can have in a gas pipe the better.

I am fully aware of the Corgi regulations and all the implications of where they do and do not apply. I also have a manometer gauge and know how to use it.

I have prepared and taken quite a few boats through the full BWB test. Including when the test was just introduced and some (but not all) of the testers were as thick as two planks when it came to interpritating the word of the regulations.
The situation is much better now. Both the wording of the regulations and the education of the testers are gradually becoming more sensible.

I would agree that in the area being discussed (bottled gas) little knowledge can be very dangerous.

I have lost some work and upset some people by refusing to even look at domestic calor gas instalations.

I have seen for myself the dramatic effects of a poor gas instillation on marine craft and it is frightening.

Iain
 
Hi Oldsaltoz. I'm sure you didn't mean to be patronising, and I probably threw my toys out of the pram prematurely(!) but my insurance is very straightforward. It says 'warranted that the gas installation be tested by a CORGI registered engineer'.

My gas installation (which has served the boat for 47 years albeit with pipes renewed as and when) consists of an open gas bottle sitting in a cockpit locker that drains into the bilges. There is no test point and neither are there any bulkhead fittings nor a shut-off valve next to the cooker. It does not comply with any guidance on marine installations.

I am therefore sorting out the gas locker and drain through skin fitting, new regulator, test point, bubble tester and shut-off valve. I'm using the British Waterways SBSS as my guidance.

Once I've done it I will get it tested and then the clause in my insurance that excludes fire and explosion damage can be removed.

I thought it was pretty straightforward and I asked what I thought was a reasonable question about reducing the number of potential leakage points as I was querying my surveyor's guidance that all bulkheads needed a bulkhead fitting. I understood Iain's point about passing straight through compression bulkhead fittings but felt this was OTT for wooden bulkheads, and also OTT in that my current 3/8" gas pipe is an an unbroken run and does not leak.

I don't think it's complicated if common sense prevails and I then get someone to check my handiwork.

On the point of being burnt to the waterline, we have a very strict policy of switching on the gas bottle when we use the cooker and switching it off when we don't.

Thanks to all who replied.

Shuggy
 
My Moody as original fit, has continuous copper from tank to cooker run through clear pvc hose. Seems a good idea since it will provide protection and you can attach the hose to the bulkhead if you wish as firm support. It is clear so you can inspect the copper inside for corrosion. Any leakage from the pipe also gets conducted to the end of the hose so if you block the inboard end it will flow back to the locker and thus overboard (not that you should have any of course) - Hope this helps
 
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