Gas cylinder orientation

concentrik

concentrik

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Do propane/butane bottles have to be vertical when in use? I've noticed that forklift trucks running on propane use them sideways.....

And the reason I ask is that I'm having a hard time finding a suitable holder for a bottle to go on the pushpit. The bottle size is 340 high and 240 dia. Naturally I'm not keen on spending over £200 on a swindlery one. At first I thought there must be something I can press into service...... stainless, HDPE or GRP..... but now I'm not so sure!
 
concentrik said:
Do propane/butane bottles have to be vertical when in use? I've noticed that forklift trucks running on propane use them sideways.....

And the reason I ask is that I'm having a hard time finding a suitable holder for a bottle to go on the pushpit. The bottle size is 340 high and 240 dia. Naturally I'm not keen on spending over £200 on a swindlery one. At first I thought there must be something I can press into service...... stainless, HDPE or GRP..... but now I'm not so sure!
Click to expand...
Yes they must be upright or you will get liquid into the regulator !
The cylinders you see on fork lift trucks are special cylinders.
 
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I can see that liquid in the regulator might be a bad thing but why? What will happen? Is there a risk when cooking under way, in a rough sea or when heeled over?
 
concentrik said:
I can see that liquid in the regulator might be a bad thing but why? What will happen? Is there a risk when cooking under way, in a rough sea or when heeled over?
Click to expand...

You can get a serious flare up at the burner, possibly enough to cause a fire on board, definitely to be avoided.

When we had a static caravan if it was very cold the gas did not vapourise fast enough and the burners would die down - usually while trying to cook breakfast - remedy was to go outside and give the bottle a good shake, this increases surface area of the liquid temporarily and thus raises gas pressure.

One time No 1 son picked the bottle up and holding it horizontally and not as he had been told, (Don't you just love teenagers?) gave it a very vigorous shaking.

Liquid gas got into the pipework past the regulator and we had a spectacular flare up at the cooker for a few secs. Fortunately no damage, but scary.
 
concentrik said:
I can see that liquid in the regulator might be a bad thing but why? What will happen? Is there a risk when cooking under way, in a rough sea or when heeled over?
Click to expand...

Although I've never tried it, I think it's safe to say that the regulator simply would not work in that orientation. It must be a similar construction to the regulator on a scuba tank - a diaphragm with atmospheric pressure air on one side and the gas from the cylinder on the other. The movement of the diaphragm controls some sort of needle valve that lets the gas through. If liquid gas is allowed to enter the cylinder side of the diaphragm, it would interfere with its freedom of movement...

To get into trouble on a heel, I think you would need something close to a complete broach in which case you have plenty of other things to worry about!
 
In those countries such as the USA, where you own the gas cylinder and have it filled as required, you can buy vertical or horizontal tanks. You can't use a vertical tank horizontally because it lacks the J-shaped tube that prevents liquid gas reaching the outlet valve.

I don't know if you can get horizontal tanks from Calor etc. in the UK.
 
Don't try and use the gas cylinder horizontally!.

A couple of years ago ours fell on its side in the locker when we were heeled well over - we didn't realise and lit the stove - We got a 3 foot jet of flame for a second or two - No damage but scarey. We didn't realise what the problem was and tried again - same result - really scarey!

Now being only fairly thick, I worked out the problem - now the bottle is well tethered upright.

JuSw
 
My old cheapo gas soldering iron / blowtorch used to sometimes have liquid butane getting into the workings. As well as some impressive fireballs and flamethrower impressions, it was particularly disconcerting because turning off the valve didn't immediately stop it. With liquid in the channels after the valve, it could keep vapourising and burning for maybe 30 seconds after being shut off. You just had to keep hold of it and point the hissing belching thing in a safe direction.

Wouldn't fancy having the same thing with stove quantities of gas.

Pete
 
When liquid LPG turns to the gas state it expands 200+ times. It you have liquid lpg coming out of your cooker jets the resulting fireball would fill the boat.
 
concentrik said:
Do propane/butane bottles have to be vertical when in use? I've noticed that forklift trucks running on propane use them sideways.....

And the reason I ask is that I'm having a hard time finding a suitable holder for a bottle to go on the pushpit. The bottle size is 340 high and 240 dia. Naturally I'm not keen on spending over £200 on a swindlery one. At first I thought there must be something I can press into service...... stainless, HDPE or GRP..... but now I'm not so sure!
Click to expand...

There is a seller on ebay who is selling GRP containers with a lid for about £100(from memory)
 
I asked a similar question some time ago , on these fora.
The answers were similar.
However , I store my spare bottle horizontally but use it in the proper vertical position.
I make sure the horizontal bottle stands vertically for a while before I connect it.
 
LPG cylinders should always be both stored, transported and used in a vertical position.

If you look carefully at the valve you'll see it has a burst disc / relief valve mechanism in the valve, usually a red or other coloured plastic thingy at the base which is designed to relieve excess pressure - GAS pressure, in the event of a cylinder in a fire or overheat situation.

As gas flows much faster than liquid, this device only works correctly if the cylinder is upright, and not submerged in liquid. It cannot relieve the pressure fast enough with liquid flow.

Fork truck cylinders have a dip tube attached to the valve, and are designed for horizontal use (in the correct orientation - you'll note there is an arrow to show the bottom, as the dip tube inside is bent).
 
You may have now come to the conclusion that they must be mounted valve uppermost to avoid personal singeing problems.

Have you considered manipulating a suitable fender basket? They mount to pushpits. A bit of rubber tube would cushion the wires.

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They're available in a range of sizes

Remember the gas is heavier than air and can accumulate in low lying areas which don't drain.
 
Well thanks to all for another comprehensive response! I was hopeful because I have an enlosure which would accept a horizontal cylinder but I recognise I'll have to spend some money, so I've ordered one to be fabricated, stainless. The wire fender basket idea is good but I'm concerned about rusty water dripping from the cylinder, so a full enclosure looks best. I'll let this one lie now.......
 
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