Gas bottles (size & type)

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eastlaked

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Just bought my self a Moody 35 (hurray!), but its 4 hours drive away (boo hoo). It has no gas bottles on board and the gas system needs a serious overhaul (pipes and regulator to be replaced etc).

What size bottles fit in a Moody 35 gas locker?

I would like to get her back in commission soon to do some early spring (winter!) sailing before moving her closer to home.

Is butane a problem in the winter?
Should I consider Propane, but is it as widely available in marinas?
Fancy dual regulator system?

All comments, thoughts and suggestions welcome.

Cheers,
David.
 
I dont know what bottles will fit.
Hopefully the 4.5 kg Calor Butane/3.9Kg Calor Popane bottles. Camping gaz may be necessary for continental use but tooooo expensive in the UK

Consider propane if you are likely to want to use the gas at winter temperatures. The practical lower limit for butane is around 3-4 C


The appliances you have may dictate which gas ... look at the ID plates.

Modern stuff can mostly be used on either along with the universal regulator designed for either (30mb ?) which means you can use either gas by just swapping the connecting hose for the relevant type.

Camping gaz can always be used in place of a Calor butane bottle, by employing the readily available adaptor/shut off valve, when necessary

Consider the merits of a marine regulator to EN 12864 annex M rather than the common old caravan one

See http://www.gasboat.net/GasBOAT Safety Regulators.pdf

Buy most of the stuff you need from http://www.bes.co.uk/ but always compare the prices with http://www.calormarinegas.co.uk/. Just occasionally Calor are cheaper

Make sure you are familiar with http://www.boatsafetyscheme.com/downloads/BSS_Guide_chap7.pdf

Fit a bubble leak detector if there is not one already
 
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eastlaked said:
Is butane a problem in the winter?
Should I consider Propane, but is it as widely available in marinas?
Fancy dual regulator system?
Click to expand...

Butane can be a problem but there's an easy way around it. When the temperature has been around or slightly above freezing for a couple of days or more there is a chance that butane will not gas off, dependent upon exactly where the gas bottle locker is located. Before going to bed boil a kettle and fill a thermos flask with fairly hot water. In the morning tip it over the bottle and regulator and it will keep gas flowing all day.

Propane is stocked by some marinas but not others. You need to check your own.

As VicS has said, modern caravan practice is to have a bulkhead regulator set at 30 mb for all appliances. This is suitable for both propane and butane. Check the Gaslow website for full details. http://www.gaslow.co.uk/
 
As VicS has said, modern caravan practice is to have a bulkhead regulator set at 30 mb for all appliances. This is suitable for both propane and butane. Check the Gaslow website for full details. http://www.gaslow.co.uk/
Click to expand...

Oh-er the link triggered a warning that the Gaslow website contained malware. :eek: ( it probably does not but having had trouble with malware in the past i am not risking it!)

However the marine Gas-boat 4006 regulators are 30mb dual fuel bulkhead mounted regulators. They are not limited to caravan use. They are available from Socal

There was a discussion on here some time ago about the Gaslow regulators. I do not think we ever established with certainty if they were in fact compliant with annexe M. We ceratinly had a very disgruntled forumite who had purchased one as a means of incorporating a high pressure pressure gauge. It should be noted that GasBoat offer pressure gauges for situations (commercial vessels and new builds) in which they are required.

Because the description of Annexe M regulators is in such tiny print onthe GasBoat website it is:

EN 12864 annex M
This standard is for the design and manufacture of
regulators for LPG cylinders to supply appliances installed
in saltwater boats.
• Material in contact with the atmosphere shall be suitably
corrosion resistant. In particular this includes internal
components above the diaphragm.
• The vent shall be on the edge of the diaphragm, in a
suitable location and of suitable size to drain water which
may collect on the diaphragm.
• Shall incorporate an over-pressure relief device, the
vent shall be provided with a pipe connection facing
downwards.
• Operating pressure specification to annex D.​
 
alahol2 said:
A bit of thread drift but how would you ever get overpressure from a gas bottle? Fire maybe?
Click to expand...

I was assuming that the overpressure relief valve was on the low pressure side. A safeguard in case the regulator malfunctioned.

I assumed correctly

Over-pressure relief
The gas system on all new vessels since 2000 must
incorporate an over-pressure safety device and since 2008
must incorporate a high pressure gauge. An over-pressure
relief device is extremely important for all privately owned
boats and a requirement for all commercial vessels: if the
diaphragm fails or the internal lock-up valve does not
close due to seizure, full cylinder pressure can enter the
low-pressure side, resulting in a very dangerous leak at the
appliance. A leak can also occur if liquid LPG escapes from
the cylinder due to heel or violent movement of the vessel
– and even simply if the gas cylinder is over filled – which
can easily happen when cylinders are not serviced, allowing
excessive build up of harmful contaminates which can
damage sub-standard regulators.
In addition to the inherent danger presented by a gas leak, if
this happens the appliance will also need to be repaired by
a skilled engineer before it is safe to use again – both costly
and inconvenient especially when away from home!​
 
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VicS said:
Oh-er the link triggered a warning that the Gaslow website contained malware. :eek: ( it probably does not but having had trouble with malware in the past i am not risking it!)
Click to expand...

I'm seeing the same warning but am puzzled about just who is responsible for the warning? It would appear the URL is being redirected to the warning screen. Google seem to have identified something suspicious, but AFAIK don't yet have authority to redirect URLs !

If anyone into these matters can explain, I'll be most interested (general interest....I have no specific desire to visit the particular site in question).

Vic(M)
 
VicMallows said:
I'm seeing the same warning but am puzzled about just who is responsible for the warning? It would appear the URL is being redirected to the warning screen. Google seem to have identified something suspicious, but AFAIK don't yet have authority to redirect URLs !

If anyone into these matters can explain, I'll be most interested (general interest....I have no specific desire to visit the particular site in question).

Vic(M)
Click to expand...
I get it with Firefox. The process is explained here. Google use the same lists.
 
I believe in keeping gas systems simple so use small propane with manual screw on regulator.
My sealed gas box with over the side drain is purpose built to take two of these bottles.
You can of course fit bigger bottles for economy if you have space but in my opinion anything bigger than these is too big to get ashore in dingy if required.
Up here in Highlands most town/villages/garages have stockists of both butane and propane calor and similar sized Camping Gas cylinders. and as there are no marinas...!
By the way if you ever need to put a purpose built gas storage facility in a locker with a small hatch build it so you can flat pack it and reassemble inside locker using sealant on all the joints.
 
vyv_cox said:
Butane can be a problem but there's an easy way around it. When the temperature has been around or slightly above freezing for a couple of days or more there is a chance that butane will not gas off, dependent upon exactly where the gas bottle locker is located. Before going to bed boil a kettle and fill a thermos flask with fairly hot water. In the morning tip it over the bottle and regulator and it will keep gas flowing all day.

]
Click to expand...

Never pour water over the regulator, all regs have some sort of breather hole to alow the diapharam to move without being affected by back pressure.
When water enters the "open" side of the diaphram this gets frozen with the low temperature of the vapour, this then restricts the movement and leads to either low pressure or over pressure.

As said above new regs must have over pressure protection, this comes in 2 forms, relief and slamshut.
Slamshut does what it says and shuts off the flow of gas and has to be manually reset which at least lets you know there may be a problem.
Relief (no massage jokes ;) ) is a type of pressure relief valve normally set at around 60mbar that allows the gas to escape from the system so as not to cause a problem downstream, however you will now have gas leaking from the over pressure vent.

PS to OP best of luck and hope you enjoy your new boat.
 
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djbreeze said:
It's worth keeping an eye on Friday Ads, etc. the bottles come up for sale cheaply there, expensive to buy them new...
Click to expand...

I was at my local council refuse tip/recycling centre yesterday. Quite an inpressive selection of gas bottles there. If there 's one near you they are always worth a visit if looking for a new bottle.
 
Spyro said:
I was at my local council refuse tip/recycling centre yesterday. Quite an inpressive selection of gas bottles there. If there 's one near you they are always worth a visit if looking for a new bottle.
Click to expand...

Agree if you have a local 'friendly' tip. My nearest one is so officious you wouldn't stand a hope! Another good bet is a wanted request on your local Freegle/Freecycle group.

Vic
 
vyv_cox said:
Butane can be a problem but there's an easy way around it. When the temperature has been around or slightly above freezing for a couple of days or more there is a chance that butane will not gas off, dependent upon exactly where the gas bottle locker is located. Before going to bed boil a kettle and fill a thermos flask with fairly hot water. In the morning tip it over the bottle and regulator and it will keep gas flowing all day.
Click to expand...

I make my gas bottle a hot water bottle - works for ages and doesn't make any mess.
Make water bottle, attach to gas cylinder side with a bit of line around it and then give the bottle a little swirling motion to get the heat going around it. Go and light cooker.
 
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