Garmin bluecharts - copying and compatibility

whipper_snapper

whipper_snapper

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I have a bluechart CD with my area unlocked. I have used it to write charts onto my GPSmap 76csx GPS which uses a microSD card.


I just bought a shiny new GPSmap 441s. It takes full size SD cards.

Are the charts compatible? There is no obvious way to connect the new GPS to a PC, on the older 76 I used a USB interface.

If I simply copy the contents of the microSD from the 76csx to a full size SD, can I plug that into the 441 and expect it to work? For instance, if I use my phone as microSD reader and a video camera as full size SD reader, can I just drag and drop files across between them? Or are there format issues ?


Thanks
 
the 441 will take bluechart g2 or g2 vision. flash updates/ charts etc go in on the sd card. I don't think it will support the old bluechart. the plotter should have charts for the area you bought it though.
 
EdBeynon said:
the 441 will take bluechart g2 or g2 vision. flash updates/ charts etc go in on the sd card. I don't think it will support the old bluechart. the plotter should have charts for the area you bought it though.
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In this case, the old Bluechart CD certainly won't work - that was a deliberate decision by Garmin as the old Bluechart was being copied so much.

There probably are ways round this (see CGPSMapper) but it isn't for the faint-hearted. I've worked with creating data (for Antarctica) for Garmin units, and it most definitely isn't easy.
 
Garmin charts are locked to either a specific plotter (in the case of the older plotters that took proprietary Garmin memory sticks) or to a specific SD card in the case of the more modern product range. You use the Mapsource programme on your PC to load charting data into the plotter via a USB cable and the unlock code for your plotter is stored in the configuration files of Mapsource on your PC. If you take the memory stick from one plotter and move it to another after you have uploaded the charts in this way, it will refuse to work.

Some of the more recent Garmin hand helds took micro-SD cards, but still locked the charts to a specific plotter. You can do away with the USB cable and let Mapsource write directly to the micro-SD card using a suitable adaptor on your PC, but the result is still locked to the plotter.

SD cards do include their own security mechanism (that's what the S stands for) - and the current Garmin charts rely on that instead. You don't get a CD or DVD - just the SD card and that can be moved from one plotter to another at will. The charts are locked to the specific SD card and if you copy them to another blank card, it will not work in your plotter.

There are ways around this and an hour or two searching the web should tell you how to do it if you are not worried about legality. Experience shows that explaining it here will result in this thread being deleted rapidly by the administrators. :)

If you are not too worried about legality and do the necessary web searching be aware that most of the tools around for cracking the protection are riddled with viruses! You have been warned!
 
Thanks, am I correct that the 'ways around it', would only work with the current generation of SD-based charts? And so I have no chance of being able to use my old bluechart CD on this plotter?

I which case BU!@@£R!
 
maby said:
SD cards do include their own security mechanism (that's what the S stands for) - and the current Garmin charts rely on that instead. You don't get a CD or DVD - just the SD card and that can be moved from one plotter to another at will. The charts are locked to the specific SD card and if you copy them to another blank card, it will not work in your plotter.
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It's different with downloaded charts. I can readily copy the charts from one SD card to another for my 551 - they still work. They are locked to the serial number of the plotter.

I don't think the 441 is mean to be able to use original bluechart charts, as others have said, but there is nothing lost in copying them to an SD card and trying! Do you use some kind of Garmin software to copy the charts around? If so, make sure you've put the card in the plotter when switched on first. The first time the plotter detects a new card it writes a file containing it's identity onto it. That way the various Garmin tools on the computer know about the plotter just by reading the card.
 
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jamesjeffrey said:
It's different with downloaded charts. I can readily copy the charts from one SD card to another for my 551 - they still work. They are locked to the serial number of the plotter.

But as someone else has asked, why try to copy old and out of date UK bluecharts onto a plotter that has a full built in, modern UK chart? Do they have additional coverage over the built in map?
Click to expand...

Because I don't sail in the UK. The plotter was bought in the US, it has full US charts, but the charts for my area are another $270. It was a very good price, but I did not expect to have to pay again for charts which I have already bought for a garmin GPSmap device.
 
I thought the included charts were bluechart ones? The G2 vision just adds pictures so you should be able to run them as far as I'm aware. I got my car GPS to load the topo map and the charts so don't see why a plotter shouldn't!
 
whipper_snapper said:
Because I don't sail in the UK. The plotter was bought in the US, it has full US charts, but the charts for my area are another $270. It was a very good price, but I did not expect to have to pay again for charts which I have already bought for a garmin GPSmap device.
Click to expand...

Sorry about that - I spotted the Kenya in your location after my post and edited - but too late. I must read more carefully!
 
lustyd said:
I thought the included charts were bluechart ones? The G2 vision just adds pictures so you should be able to run them as far as I'm aware. I got my car GPS to load the topo map and the charts so don't see why a plotter shouldn't!
Click to expand...

The CD contains Bluechart charts, the plotter uses Bluechart G2 charts, and G2 Vision are the ones with the photos.
 
whipper_snapper said:
Thanks, am I correct that the 'ways around it', would only work with the current generation of SD-based charts? And so I have no chance of being able to use my old bluechart CD on this plotter?

I which case BU!@@£R!
Click to expand...

The "ways around it" work for pretty much all combinations - but do be careful - you can end up with a very infected PC!
 
jamesjeffrey said:
The CD contains Bluechart charts, the plotter uses Bluechart G2 charts, and G2 Vision are the ones with the photos.
Click to expand...

I'm not so sure that there is a compatibility problem. I have certainly used both old Bluechart software off a CD and the latest generation on a locked SD card in my ETrex hand held.
 
maby said:
I'm not so sure that there is a compatibility problem. I have certainly used both old Bluechart software off a CD and the latest generation on a locked SD card in my ETrex hand held.
Click to expand...

The OP certainly has nothing to lose by trying!
 
Could you get a second unlock code from Garmin?

I had a 276 with outdated charts. I bought a new 76 which came with UK chart pack. When I asked Garmin UK for a second unlock code for the 276, they said "that'll be £179 please (or some such sum). I then phoned Garmin USA and they said "Gee, sure" and gave me a second unlock code for free.
 
whipper_snapper said:
Thanks, am I correct that the 'ways around it', would only work with the current generation of SD-based charts? And so I have no chance of being able to use my old bluechart CD on this plotter?

I which case BU!@@£R!
Click to expand...

I think there are several points here:

  1. There isn't a LEGAL way you can use the old BlueChart CD. Garmin deliberately introduced the G2 range to stop people doing exactly what you're trying to do.
  2. There are ways of doing it; all are either prone to infecting your PC with viruses OR are technically difficult. The CGPSMapper web-site I linked before shows you a safe way of doing it - but it would be technically demanding.
  3. Your old BlueChart CD is out of date; it will not have current corrections in place. Whether that is important depends on where you are sailing.
  4. The HomePort software is the latest interface software for Garmin marine devices; it is far less capable than MapSource.
 
Thanks all. I will have a play and try each of those options!

Given the sailing area I am interested in, a chart a few years old is perfectly adequate. I can probably manage technically difficult and viruses hold no fear for me, my platform is not a PC!
 
whipper_snapper said:
Thanks all. I will have a play and try each of those options!

Given the sailing area I am interested in, a chart a few years old is perfectly adequate. I can probably manage technically difficult and viruses hold no fear for me, my platform is not a PC!
Click to expand...

Then I'm afraid you are probably sunk as far as software goes - AFAIK, it is all Windows stuff.

You might find something Linux based, but if it's a Mac (which are no longer as virus free as they once were) then I think you really are sunk. Certainly all the (reliable!) tools I know about are Windows only.

I should say that I have created maps and charts for use in Garmin kit (legally, I hasten to say), and it really is VERY demanding; I'm pretty sure I haven't uncovered all the ramifications of tiling, map sets, custom cartography and so on - and I have 30-odd years experience in handling Geographic data. The major problem is that everything that you can find about the Garmin data formats is reverse-engineered; Garmin absolutely don't release their data formats.

To encourage you, there isn't THAT much difference in format between BlueChart and G2 - mainly in the way that seurity and unlocking codes are handled. But I suspect that simple copying of the charts won't work (because security and locking are different); the way I'd do it would be to copy the map to a PC, use a tool like GPSMap to convert the map to Polish format, then use CGPSMapper to re-convert it back to the latest format. But the authors of legitimate software like GPSMap and CGPSMapper may well block that route; they don't want to be challenged by Garmin.
 
AntarcticPilot said:
Then I'm afraid you are probably sunk as far as software goes - AFAIK, it is all Windows stuff.

You might find something Linux based, but if it's a Mac (which are no longer as virus free as they once were) then I think you really are sunk. Certainly all the (reliable!) tools I know about are Windows only.

I....
Click to expand...

If he's planning on experimenting with some of the more "creative" (illegal?) routes, steering clear of Windows is probably the best advice - despite the fact that the tools are all Windows programmes. Sit down with a large glass of Wine and see how you get on. :)

I strongly believe that if you are able to create an SD card with Bluechart data on it together with the correct security files, it will work in your plotter. There is a lot of information on the web as to how to achieve it.
 
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