Gale Sail

[Adonnante]

Have any of you fellow forumites have one of these ?

Yes, I have carried a Gale Sail storm jib for 3 years, never used it in F5+ conditions but tested it in moderate breezes to ensure that as and when its needed I can rig it easily. We are fitted with a Profurl roller reefing system and usually set a laminated jib with a foam luff that is still sets well when rolled to heavy weather jib size. When rolled to storm jib size its flat and could not generate any lift but does allow the boat (12m cat) to be balanced and driven by a reefed main and rotating mast. If we have a strong wind leg we like to change to our heavy weather jib as this allows mast rotation when beating where the big jib fouls the diamonds but needs a strong crew to complete the change.

The storm jib is attached to a deck fixing just aft of the forestay by a strop to move the sail up above the roller reefing drum. The sail has a flap that wraps around the rolled jib ( the rolled jib sheets are left wrapped around the the jib but pulled down to the forestay deck fixing and lashed with a sail tie) and has a couple of 'D' rings that are attached to the tack strop. the flap is retained up the luff by piston hanks, five in our case. The head also has two 'D' rings that the halyard is tied to. We use a spinnaker halyard to hoist, but a second jib halyard would be better and give much less chance of chafe; now I think of it we have two spinnaker halyards so I could rig them both and only use the leeward one. In the moderate conditions that we have tested the sail hoisting hasn't been an issue, chafe on the rolled sail I would expect to be minimal and the halyard tension can be surprisingly light to give a good shape, the rounded leading edge results in an efficient looking shape, I'm sure some aerodynamic expert will correct me though.

In an ideal world I would like a removable inner forestay with a dedicated jib halyard for HWJ and storm jib. The modifications on my boat are about £6k and there would be no guarantee that the mast wouldn't be compromised. Our present arrangement is the best compromise that I can find. If anyone has any improvements based on practical experience on an improvement I am open to suggestions.

 

[Twister_Ken]

A quick google finds repacking instructions. I couldn't find any dimensions, but that's not uncommon. You can get an idea looking at some of the pictures.

Pete

Dimensions are on the chandler's site - basically 4, 6, 8 or 10 sqm depending on boat size. Length of sides is also given. The prices are the biggest dimensions, they're enormous!

 

[prv]

Dimensions are on the chandler's site - basically 4, 6, 8 or 10 sqm depending on boat size.

VO5 was after packing dimensions.

Pete

 

[Blueboatman]

Slight thread check,
Chrisedwards, you need to read one of the last articles written by Blondie Hasler-it will be in the YBW archives- wherein he attempts to circumnavigate Jura IIRC and learnt 'even more' about using junk rig.

In my(not so humble)opinion there comes a point where you just do not want to be exposing and putting load on the yard and batten bundle, and with this in mind when I owned a j/r Corribee I devised a conventional trysail that sat on the mat using a continuous lacing as seen on some gaffers- perfect sail in higher wind strengths and I used it.

 

[G12]

I'd thought about one of these before but decided that the wear and tear on my rolled genoa would be worrying. Think of the loads that will be transmitted through it. Layer on layer of expensive sail chafing together for what could be several days at a time. No thanks!
Also you still have all the aerodynamic drag of your rolled genoa as well as it's weight aloft at a time when you really don't want that. The rolled genoa would also be destroying the airflow over the luff of the Gale Sail making performance weaker and probably losing a noticable amount of pointing ability.

Just my 2p's worth.

 

[prv]

Also you still have all the aerodynamic drag of your rolled genoa as well as it's weight aloft at a time when you really don't want that.

Presumably that's inevitable whatever you do, if you're going to have the standard roller headsail?

Pete

 

[chrisedwards]

Slight thread check,
Chrisedwards, you need to read one of the last articles written by Blondie Hasler-it will be in the YBW archives- wherein he attempts to circumnavigate Jura IIRC and learnt 'even more' about using junk rig.

In my(not so humble)opinion there comes a point where you just do not want to be exposing and putting load on the yard and batten bundle, and with this in mind when I owned a j/r Corribee I devised a conventional trysail that sat on the mat using a continuous lacing as seen on some gaffers- perfect sail in higher wind strengths and I used it.

In a lifetime of sailing many junk rigs I have not got a clue what you are on about. Spread the word round some junk rig collegues - equally baffled. I think you must have had the Newbridge hipower rig on your corribee which was aweful.


Have the Jura article - please read last few sentences.

 

[Adonnante]

The rolled genoa would also be destroying the airflow over the luff of the Gale Sail making performance weaker and probably losing a noticable amount of pointing ability.

Just my 2p's worth.[/QUOTE]

Wouldn't the Gale sail streamline the air flow around the rolled jib reducing the drag of the rolled sail, if so I would expect to improve pointing?

 

[Blueboatman]

Re chrisedwards.
Interesting. Nope, I had 'conventional' (!) sail set on tapered Needlespar mast. It is the only j/r boat I have sailed but I owned it a fair few years and it eventually took me to the Carib and up to Canada etc and you learn all the time, chaff, friction, stress, the devil's in the detail ( well you probably know all that).

I got fed up with cross grain fractures on the cedar battens, to which the wood is prone. Replacements in Douglas Fir, pvc tubing etc were all right but all adding weight, incrementally.
Couple of failures of the welds ( at sea) on the yard bracket and I decided that I did not want to be faced with a broken yard or worse,a bad knockdown that could with one wave 'take out' sail, yard and battens/boom bundle, leaving, er, what?

Hence i knocked up my own version of a storm sail. An added benefit was when becalmed this trisail could be used sheeted flat to prevent rolling very effectively, whereas the standard rig could just go on banging against the mast and beat itself to death clattering back and forth, so ..it worked for me!

I have posted a pic on here some time way back but cannot locate.IIRC it was in relation to a Roger Taylor thread ( who doesn't bother with a stormsail either).

Hope that helps. What are you sailing now and does it have hinged battens or a fan top?

 

[VO5]

Yes, I have carried a Gale Sail storm jib for 3 years, never used it in F5+ conditions but tested it in moderate breezes to ensure that as and when its needed I can rig it easily. We are fitted with a Profurl roller reefing system and usually set a laminated jib with a foam luff that is still sets well when rolled to heavy weather jib size. When rolled to storm jib size its flat and could not generate any lift but does allow the boat (12m cat) to be balanced and driven by a reefed main and rotating mast. If we have a strong wind leg we like to change to our heavy weather jib as this allows mast rotation when beating where the big jib fouls the diamonds but needs a strong crew to complete the change.

The storm jib is attached to a deck fixing just aft of the forestay by a strop to move the sail up above the roller reefing drum. The sail has a flap that wraps around the rolled jib ( the rolled jib sheets are left wrapped around the the jib but pulled down to the forestay deck fixing and lashed with a sail tie) and has a couple of 'D' rings that are attached to the tack strop. the flap is retained up the luff by piston hanks, five in our case. The head also has two 'D' rings that the halyard is tied to. We use a spinnaker halyard to hoist, but a second jib halyard would be better and give much less chance of chafe; now I think of it we have two spinnaker halyards so I could rig them both and only use the leeward one. In the moderate conditions that we have tested the sail hoisting hasn't been an issue, chafe on the rolled sail I would expect to be minimal and the halyard tension can be surprisingly light to give a good shape, the rounded leading edge results in an efficient looking shape, I'm sure some aerodynamic expert will correct me though.

In an ideal world I would like a removable inner forestay with a dedicated jib halyard for HWJ and storm jib. The modifications on my boat are about £6k and there would be no guarantee that the mast wouldn't be compromised. Our present arrangement is the best compromise that I can find. If anyone has any improvements based on practical experience on an improvement I am open to suggestions.

Apologies for appearing dense, but can you please explain more clearly.

Why is the deck fixing located aft of the forestay and not forward of it ?
Surely a storm jib is used for running with a following sea and not into it ?
Why would the flap have two D rings each at at tack and head ?
Surely one each is enough ?
Or is it because the sailmaker specifically recommends hoisting on two halyards intead of one to allow for tensioning choice (one leeward and one windward) ?
And lastly, which is what intrigues me the most, what do these 5 piston hanks fasten on to at the luff please ? Rings ? D rings ? Eyes ?

 

[Adonnante]

Apologies for appearing dense, but can you please explain more clearly.

Why is the deck fixing located aft of the forestay and not forward of it ?
Surely a storm jib is used for running with a following sea and not into it ?
Why would the flap have two D rings each at at tack and head ?
Surely one each is enough ?
Or is it because the sailmaker specifically recommends hoisting on two halyards intead of one to allow for tensioning choice (one leeward and one windward) ?
And lastly, which is what intrigues me the most, what do these 5 piston hanks fasten on to at the luff please ? Rings ? D rings ? Eyes ?

The tack attachment point is behind the forestay because the rolled jib acts as the leading edge of the storm jib. The sail has a rectangular flap attached to the luff of the jib which is passed around the rolled jib and reattached to the storm jib by the 'D' rings and piston hanks. It has two 'D' rings at both tack and head to transfere the loads created by the halyard when hoisting. The piston hanks are included to close the tube formed by the flap that wraps round the rolled jib, this ensures that the storm jib sets well on both tacks. The sailmaker only recommends one halyard, it was my idea to use two so that the windward halyard can be slackened off to hopefully reduce chafe, not tried it so I don't know if it would work. One problem I can foresee is hoisting and controling two halyards together; must try it someday.

I look on a storm jib as just a small very robust sail, it will perform like any other sail and will enable a boat to make to windward in strong conditions. Indeed about 15 years ago on
another cat I had to beat home 50 miles with a storm jib and heavily reefed main in heavy conditions after pulling the head of our working jib. Basically its the hulls and keels, along with the boats windage that limit its up wind performance. Down wind any sail set forward will do, indeed in strong conditions we can remove all sail and deploy a drogue.

Hopefully I've attached some photos of the arrangement on our cat. Snapshot 2 shows the head whilst being hoisted with the halyard attached to the two 'D' rings, the top piston hank is also visible. Snapshot 3 shows the same when hoisted and sheeted in and snapshot 5 shows the tack rings and tack strop.

Hope this helps.

Peter.

 

[VO5]

The tack attachment point is behind the forestay because the rolled jib acts as the leading edge of the storm jib. The sail has a rectangular flap attached to the luff of the jib which is passed around the rolled jib and reattached to the storm jib by the 'D' rings and piston hanks. It has two 'D' rings at both tack and head to transfere the loads created by the halyard when hoisting. The piston hanks are included to close the tube formed by the flap that wraps round the rolled jib, this ensures that the storm jib sets well on both tacks. The sailmaker only recommends one halyard, it was my idea to use two so that the windward halyard can be slackened off to hopefully reduce chafe, not tried it so I don't know if it would work. One problem I can foresee is hoisting and controling two halyards together; must try it someday.

I look on a storm jib as just a small very robust sail, it will perform like any other sail and will enable a boat to make to windward in strong conditions. Indeed about 15 years ago on
another cat I had to beat home 50 miles with a storm jib and heavily reefed main in heavy conditions after pulling the head of our working jib. Basically its the hulls and keels, along with the boats windage that limit its up wind performance. Down wind any sail set forward will do, indeed in strong conditions we can remove all sail and deploy a drogue.

Hopefully I've attached some photos of the arrangement on our cat. Snapshot 2 shows the head whilst being hoisted with the halyard attached to the two 'D' rings, the top piston hank is also visible. Snapshot 3 shows the same when hoisted and sheeted in and snapshot 5 shows the tack rings and tack strop.

Hope this helps.

Peter.

I am much obliged to you. It is a perfect reply in that it satisfies all my queries. Many thanks indeed.

 

[liverpool]

GALE SAIL

My Sanders equivalent storm sail has hanks on the wrap-around sleeve. Yes I have to go up to the bow to hank it on - so would do this early if weather deteriorating - boat sails well with this sail so no significant disadvantage in hoisting it early. Jib sheets are not untied from the jib - just secured around jib and then led down to deck at the bow to allow sleeve of Storm sail to be wrapped around the furled jib. Hope this helps. Iain.

 

[chrisedwards]

Re chrisedwards.
Interesting. Nope, I had 'conventional' (!) sail set on tapered Needlespar mast. It is the only j/r boat I have sailed but I owned it a fair few years and it eventually took me to the Carib and up to Canada etc and you learn all the time, chaff, friction, stress, the devil's in the detail ( well you probably know all that).

I got fed up with cross grain fractures on the cedar battens, to which the wood is prone. Replacements in Douglas Fir, pvc tubing etc were all right but all adding weight, incrementally.
Couple of failures of the welds ( at sea) on the yard bracket and I decided that I did not want to be faced with a broken yard or worse,a bad knockdown that could with one wave 'take out' sail, yard and battens/boom bundle, leaving, er, what?

Hence i knocked up my own version of a storm sail. An added benefit was when becalmed this trisail could be used sheeted flat to prevent rolling very effectively, whereas the standard rig could just go on banging against the mast and beat itself to death clattering back and forth, so ..it worked for me!

I have posted a pic on here some time way back but cannot locate.IIRC it was in relation to a Roger Taylor thread ( who doesn't bother with a stormsail either).

Hope that helps. What are you sailing now and does it have hinged battens or a fan top?

Hello Blueboatman thanks for this information and congratulations for taking a corribee across the Atlantic. I have had several junk rigs from Kingfisher 20's to a Lone gull schooner. The latter had sails with a sewn in camber which I feel is the way ahead. Right now I have just rigged a Freedom 30 with hinged battens and fanned top simply because I could get the sails cheaply second hand.

In relation to this thread I have always felt the junk rig comes into its own as the weather gets worse.I have used the top panel only just twice in a lifetime of sailing and one of those times there would not have been time to rig a storm trysail, jib etc equivalent for a bermudan.