Future liveaboard

[machojome]

Hi, new to the posting thing so hopefully well get it right first time!!
We have spent several years looking into second home property in most regions in south france. We have looked into Dutch barges as well. We are now beginning to move towards considering a larger catamaran and wondered if there were any Cat liveaboarders around this forum to ask questions of. Why have we delayed so far?, well were not yet at the retirement age so in the interim we would like a vessel that is functional as a few times a year holiday destination - preferably in the south East of France. We would then want to use this as our future liveaboard that gives us the ability to travel around the med and as experience grows further afield.
We have narrowed our search to a cat for the following reasons; great space for living plus visiting family and friends.
Ability to travel longer distances as experience grows.
they seem to be value for money in comparison to monohulls and powerboats.
Drawback seems to be berthing space and cost.

any views, advice, and if possible existing cat owners who could fill us in with the pitfalls etc

 

[JamesFrance]

If you want to be based on the French coast, I would suggest you look to buy a boat with an existing place in a port and make sure it will still be available to you after you buy. There are very few catamaran spaces and most unlikely to be one available for a new arrival.

 

[mandlmaunder]

Hi and Welcome
What are you waiting for ?? you dont have to be retired to liveabrd, we aren't and do.
We are now in the Caribbean , having left England 5 yrs ago to do a 2 yr round and back of the Atlantic. After 6 months as full on liveabrds and only making it as far as Spain but enjoying every second of our new life we agreed that we couldn't go back to the RAT race and would do anything to stay and play.
We had had a 10yr plan to learn more about sailing , buy a Cat, get some transportable skills and begin before it was too late.That plan took 12 yrs and once we'd gotten the boat another 5 to actually leave it all behind
5 yrs later and we are still having a blast .Life gets better and better 1 way or another ,
The sooner you start the more fun you'll enjoy together.

As for Cats , in our humble ops , the only way .
The big thing about being a liveabrd is that you are on your boat 24/7 (I know thats obvious) but you may only sail 50 or so days a year once you find an area that you fall in love with. So personal comfort and ease of life abrd are major concerns. We love our 36ft Solaris Sunstar ,once in a while we look at the bigger Cats and mutter that bigger might be better. But then again had a job for a company in the Caribbean doing term(1 week) charters on 60ft Cats and really enjoyed that but was so very glad when we went to the chandlers that it was not our money going over the counter almost every week.
Size does matter , bigger is always moor costly. Our 36 ft is fine for us and occassional guests.
As an aside we are 42 and 60 .
Mark n Lee from Manatee

feel free to ask any Q's
/forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

 

[jeremyshaw]

As Mark says, "what are you waiting for?".

I'm on my second cat. Now a Fountaine Pajot Belize 43, previously a Snowgoose Elite. Both great boats. I would have been happy to live on the Snowgoose but the wife wanted a bigger/newer boat and I don't regret it. Much bigger starts to get a lot more work.

At the risk of provoking monhullers, many of our mono liveaboard friends say "wish we had got a cat". Yes, you'll typically pay 50% more for berthing if you want to go in a marina, but you'll go less often because you'll be comfortable when monos are rolling.

As to brands, it's a huge subject, but key less obvious things to think about are bridgedeck clearance (lower means more slamming), length and weight distribution (smaller with weight at ends means potential hobby horsing), weight itself (cats are not displacement craft and should be kept light for speed); daggerboards or not (much better pointing, but a hassle and can intrude); hull width (narrower=faster and less roomy).

Think also about ventilation. Some northern European boats are potential ovens. Nice sloping coachroof fronts look great but seas wash over them and the sun beats down...

 

[blueglass]

SE France is a a headache to find any kind of berth. with a cat you would stand little chance. see the thread on this same page re South of Feance moorings

 

[Adaero]

We are slightly more advanced than yourselves having ordered our boat and planned roughly the next 12 months.
We cannot full time liveaboard for the next 18 months due to work commitments but we should be able to do 2 or 3 months on board followed by 1 month back at work. We will see our new boat in Cape Town in 9 days 16 hours 20 minutes (not that we are counting) and we return to collect it 4 weeks later after some additional after-market options have been fitted.
As everyone has said finding a mooring is difficult and can be very expensive. I know this from experience as I will have to use a marina when I need to return to the UK. We are booked in one already and they are using a square meterage calculation of around €0.45 per meter sq per night.
We spent nearly 2 years finding the right boat that suited us and your choice will depend on a number of factors. Have a read of our website www.tulliana.adaero.co.uk under "The Boat" and selection process. From there you can download the spreadsheet we used. Boat selection is very personal so alter the spreadsheet to suit your needs and see how you get on. If I were you, see if you can get on a cheap flight to La Rochelle in a couple of weeks time and visit the Grand Pavois which is probably one the best turnout of multihulls anywhere. You can use that time to at least find out what size and type of boat will best suit.
Have fun

 

[machojome]

Thanks everyone for the responses its great motivation for us. One question immediately is if your not using marina berths are you just mooring out at sea? how sustainable is this - do you then tend to use marinas for wintering and other than that your on the move?
Maybe i misunderstood but it came across this way. Adaero we have looked at your site and will follow it with interest as your plan develops to reality.

does anyone have a view on buying new (Expensive) versus by an ex charter vessel. Were comfortable with used as we may get more boat for our money, but wonder whether the ex charters have been hammered - and can anyone recomend a good dealer/broker to deal with and look at their site?
thanks again

 

[Tranona]

There aren't many ex charter catamarans on the market yet as they have only become popular in the last 5 years or so, and they usually have a minimum life on a fleet of 6 seasons.

The pros and cons of buying ex charter have been aired many times here. Yes, they will have had more use than a private boat, but are usually well maintained. Engines have high hours, but that is not necessarily a bad thing as they are still well within their design life. Some are privately owned under a a mangement contract and may be a better bet dependent on how much interest the owner has taken. You will have to budget for some upgrades on spec and possible replacements, but usually prices at anywhere up to 20% lower than a similar private boat allow for this. Most are quoted ex VAT (in Greece, where most are) and VAT is payable on the purchase price. Overall, much cheaper than a new boat - at least 40% less so you can, if you want get a bigger boat for your budget. However, the test is to look at the total cost including all your upgrades and decide whether it is good value for you. As usual, get a survey.

Chris Hawes of Yacht Fractions is an active broker in this market.

Good luck.

 

[jeremyshaw]

MOORING VS. MARINAS
This very much depends on
a) personal preference
b) Location
c) Budget

In some parts of the Med anchoring isn't practical, so marina or dock mooring is unavoidable. Many people also find it more sociable and convenient.

In the Caribbean most people anchor most of the time, except in places like Trinidad, for the hurricane season, where there is very limited mooring/anchoring.
In the Med we anchored 3/4 of the time, but for other people it will be the other way round. Some pride themselves on never going into marinas...

NEW VS OLD
Again a pretty subjective decision, much like buying a car. Many liveaboards are on very old boats which are just fine. Clearly if you buy an older boat you are more likely to have to spend money on it. But even a new boat needs fixing remarkably quickly.

We got lucky in buying a one year old boat that had hardly been used. It had been specced up for blue water cruising, and as with cars, those 'extras' rarely recover their value. When pricing new boats be very careful about the cost of all the options you want. This can easily add 25% to the headline price.

If I was buying again I'd be quite happy buying an older boat if the price and design was right. Cat design has moved on quite a lot in the last decade, with bigger fuller hulls from people like Fountaine Pajot and Lagoon, but perhaps not so much in the last 5 years. I think the choice is model first, age second.

BROKERS
In the UK www.multihullworld.com are I think the largest. They sold my last cat and I found them lovely to deal with - no other connection. But just google the cats you are interested in and you'll find plenty. Being prepared to travel can help. One reason we got a good deal on our boat is that it was in Tunisia, which put people off. We knew we wanted that kind of boat, so just jumped on a plane and were there to do the deal..

 

[jeremyshaw]

Just realised I didn't answer your query re wintering. Yes, in the Med, most people tend to hole up in a marina for the winter. As you'll see from other posts here people are already starting to think about where they'll spend that season. But some people will remain at anchor and some will still move around (though you have to be more careful with your timing of course).

 

[Adaero]

Yes, I agree new is very expensive.
The biggest range of ex-charter boats is handled by The Moorings brokerage in Ft Lauderdale who also handle all of Sunsail and Footloose fleets. Google Moorings brokerage as they have around 40 odd cats on their books at any time. It is not all Leopards either, you will find Lagoon, FP and a few others.
My only piece of advice (after chartering one myself) is to get yourself a very good surveyor as a number of these have been grounded and sometimes quickly patched to get them back into charter.

 

[tcm]

i completely asgree with jeremy shaw. Especialy about the willingness to travel: I saw three boats of the type iwas intrested in and there only were at that time 15 built of that exact type. Thus when the guy starting mentioning the price of these other boats, i could give him the true picture of how long those others had been for sale, because i had seenem. Yeah, there's three boats, see, and just one serious buyer, which would seem to be me...