furling Genoa

[zoidberg]

Normally when AMOST passing a bouy or ferry

Timing is everything in memorable SNAFUs.

 

[Refueler]

??????

Heeling over and slewing up into the the wind is exactly what broaching is! At least that's what I've always understood and what numerous definitions I found on t'internet say it is.

E.g. Wikipedia:
'A broach is an abrupt, involuntary change in a vessel's course, towards the wind, resulting from loss of directional control . . .'

I have always been led to understand "Broaching" being the involuntary heeling over to near beam ends .... basically the boat being 'slammed over' enough heeling near 90deg ... not just a change in course / control.

Leaving Cowes hbr - if you cut through the eastern part with moorings ... with moderate / strong wind in a particular direction - you can get an area of confused wind caused by winds striking the high headland and being reflected back - that twice has had my 4 ton 25ft Motor sailer laid on beam ends ... THAT to me is broaching .. not just turning up into wind.

If I'm wrong - then we learn something every day ...

 

[Biggles Wader]

I always thought the correct term is "broaching to" and it happens when running downwind and the vessel loses steerage way due to the following seas catching up. She then slews round and ends up beam on to the wind and sea.

 

[zoidberg]

'The different meaning of words....'

It's always valuable to explore what the other guy thinks a word or phrase means to him ( her? ). If that differs from what you comprehend by that word, then certainly it helps to shine a little light together into that corner. You've come to that point by different pathways....

e.g.

It's often Americanisms that confuse. Could be related to their execrable education.... and our kids are heading rapidly in the same direction.
F'r example, take the confusions arising from them being unable to distinguish Left from Right, which gives them 'Red Right Returning'.... and their sustained nonsense of preferring Imperial Units of Measure while rejecting SI Units. This lead to them crashing a Mars Lander as one highly-paid rocket-science engineer mistook the specified altitude for brake-parachute deployment and dialled in 'feet' instead of the required 'metres'. Result - splat!

 

[Refueler]

'The different meaning of words....'

It's always valuable to explore what the other guy thinks a word or phrase means to him ( her? ). If that differs from what you comprehend by that word, then certainly it helps to shine a little light together into that corner. You've come to that point by different pathways....

It is always useful as well - to use a better reference media than Wikipedia - a resource that has Reader Editable content and has also been found on various subjects to have printed common belief rather than fact.

Not that I am saying they are wrong on this ... but I do feel Wiki definition lacks somewhat .... it doesn't convey the force and trauma that a real 'broach' holds.

 

[johnalison]

I always understood broaching to mean being laid over, but the current use to mean an involuntary change of course due to excessive heel needs a term to describe it and it doesn't worry me if people use broaching to cover this. The meaning is usually clear from the context.

 

[LittleSister]

It is always useful as well - to use a better reference media than Wikipedia - a resource that has Reader Editable content and has also been found on various subjects to have printed common belief rather than fact.

Not that I am saying they are wrong on this ... but I do feel Wiki definition lacks somewhat .... it doesn't convey the force and trauma that a real 'broach' holds.

It's always useful, when casting aspersions on an example someone has given that contradicts your understanding, to provide an example that actually supports your case.

Wikipedia was only one of dozens of examples, including those from sailing organisations, that I found, all saying the same thing in various forms of words.

 

[William_H]

In my experience Broaching means as said lay the boat over near to it's beam ends but inevitably this leads to the next step which is uncontrolled turn to windward due to imballance of drive sails to hull and the complete loss of rudder power due to rudder effect trying to lift the stern. So definition laying over the boat under sail or wave force is correct just not complete. ie leaves out the loss of directional control. I became quite experienced at broaching under shy spinnaker until I increased rudder area, used a smaller spinnaker more often and got a bit more savy about anticipating a broach. (turning down wind before she turns up wind) Haven't had water pouring in to the cockpit for a while now. ol'will

 

[jaminb]

It is always useful as well - to use a better reference media than Wikipedia - a resource that has Reader Editable content and has also been found on various subjects to have printed common belief rather than fact.

Not that I am saying they are wrong on this ... but I do feel Wiki definition lacks somewhat .... it doesn't convey the force and trauma that a real 'broach' holds.

Definitely no violence or trauma in my mild broaches / loss of control, apart from previously mentioned when in proximity to solid /scratchy things, in fact I tell new crew that it demonstrates how safe the boat is and how she cannot capsize. Probably explains why I sail solo most of the time!

 

[johnalison]

In my experience Broaching means as said lay the boat over near to it's beam ends but inevitably this leads to the next step which is uncontrolled turn to windward due to imballance of drive sails to hull and the complete loss of rudder power due to rudder effect trying to lift the stern. So definition laying over the boat under sail or wave force is correct just not complete. ie leaves out the loss of directional control. I became quite experienced at broaching under shy spinnaker until I increased rudder area, used a smaller spinnaker more often and got a bit more savy about anticipating a broach. (turning down wind before she turns up wind) Haven't had water pouring in to the cockpit for a while now. ol'will

It is possible that the term originated many yonks ago and may have included square-riggers, where broaching would presumably not have led to rounding up, a characteristic of those who value accommodation over sailing performance.

 

[Refueler]

In my experience Broaching means as said lay the boat over near to it's beam ends but inevitably this leads to the next step which is uncontrolled turn to windward due to imballance of drive sails to hull and the complete loss of rudder power due to rudder effect trying to lift the stern. So definition laying over the boat under sail or wave force is correct just not complete. ie leaves out the loss of directional control. I became quite experienced at broaching under shy spinnaker until I increased rudder area, used a smaller spinnaker more often and got a bit more savy about anticipating a broach. (turning down wind before she turns up wind) Haven't had water pouring in to the cockpit for a while now. ol'will

The general hull form as it heels causes changes in underwater profile and dynamics ... as the boat heels more the tendency to ROUND UP increases ...