Furlers?

[MINESAPINT2]

I have a Tradewind 25 Gaff Cutter which has a Wykeham Martin Furler (size 3 I think) on the jib which enables the bowsprit to retract which I never do. The staysail has a roller reefer with an aluminium foil. Whereas the staysail is easy to furl the jib is extremely difficult. I guess it is the tiny diameter of the Wykeham gear that is the problem, the reefer on the staysail being much larger diameter.

I am considering ditching the Wykeham gear and fitting a different type of furler and am looking for advice.

You will be forgiven for thinking why do I not just replace the Wykeham with the same furler that is on the staysail but I am interested in what you have to say. Next time I am at the boat I will have a look to see what make the existing staysail furler is.

Additionally I have 2 jibs that have life in them and wonder whether it is possible to alter them to suit the new system?

Thanks

Mike

 

[Plum]

I have a Tradewind 25 Gaff Cutter which has a Wykeham Martin Furler (size 3 I think) on the jib which enables the bowsprit to retract which I never do. The staysail has a roller reefer with an aluminium foil. Whereas the staysail is easy to furl the jib is extremely difficult. I guess it is the tiny diameter of the Wykeham gear that is the problem, the reefer on the staysail being much larger diameter.

I am considering ditching the Wykeham gear and fitting a different type of furler and am looking for advice.

You will be forgiven for thinking why do I not just replace the Wykeham with the same furler that is on the staysail but I am interested in what you have to say. Next time I am at the boat I will have a look to see what make the existing staysail furler is.

Additionally I have 2 jibs that have life in them and wonder whether it is possible to alter them to suit the new system?

Thanks

Mike

Hi, I have the same arrangement on my gaffer but do not have a problem with the Wykeham Martin on the jib. In what way is your jib difficult to furl?

Www.solocoastalsailing.co.uk

 

[MINESAPINT2]

Hi, I have the same arrangement on my gaffer but do not have a problem with the Wykeham Martin on the jib. In what way is your jib difficult to furl?

Www.solocoastalsailing.co.uk

Thanks for reply,

In the harbour or in light winds at sea it is fine but when there is any weight of wind in the sail it becomes progressively more difficult sometimes requiring every bit of strength I have to furl it. In the same conditions (obviously) the staysail furls fine on the roller reefer. The fact that the jib furls OK in light winds suggests there is no problem with the Whkeham gear or with the tension on it, it is obviously the wind in the sail that makes the difference.

With the Wykeham gear being so small in the diameter it does not create much leverage.

Mike

 

[Catalina36]

As the load goes up, the cost and the need for good engineering goes up. I have a Schaefer as standard fit as it's a US-built boat, simply excellent but silly money. Years ago I had a Jaguar 27 and fitted what was then a Kemp Furlex, nowadays just Furlex, and it was more than adequate. Look at the loads involved and shop around.

 

[Plum]

Thanks for reply,

In the harbour or in light winds at sea it is fine but when there is any weight of wind in the sail it becomes progressively more difficult sometimes requiring every bit of strength I have to furl it. In the same conditions (obviously) the staysail furls fine on the roller reefer. The fact that the jib furls OK in light winds suggests there is no problem with the Whkeham gear or with the tension on it, it is obviously the wind in the sail that makes the difference.

With the Wykeham gear being so small in the diameter it does not create much leverage.

Mike

Then may I suggest you avoid " weight of wind in the sail" when you furl. My standard method, in anything above f3, is to turn downwind until the jib is in the shadow of the main, when the sail will hang limp, then furl away. Always works for me.

Www.solocoastalsailing.co.uk

 

[prv]

It would be worth turning the top and bottom bearings by hand to check they’re free. The innards can rust or wear, but can also be replaced - I’m told with bicycle parts!

I used to have a similar sized gaffer with the same reefing staysail / furling jib arrangement, and it worked well, so there’s nothing inherently wrong with the design.

Pete

 

[peter gibbs]

I guess a modern furler such as Furlex with its much larger drum and ease of operation would be considered out of keeping with the boat?
Of course these have foils and require sails with bolt ropes.so your existing suite would be redundant - probably a show stopper. Would be for me.

Except you have a safety issue when you can't easily take power off the headsails. But let's compare favourably; if the breeze is anything over 15 kn I have to put a lot of leverage on my furling line, even take to a winch. I don't think any furler will work easily with power in the sails.

PWG

 

[prv]

Except you have a safety issue when you can't easily take power off the headsails.

Worst case with a Wykeham Martin, you could always lower the sail instead of furling it

Pete

 

[MINESAPINT2]

Apparently I am not the first to experience issues furling in increasing wind speed with WM gear. Ultimately as Pete points out if the sail will not furl I would need to lower the sail with the halyard. The sail would probably end up in the water but would be down, but what a mess!. Additionally the top swivel has the potential to make some nasty dents in my lovely wooden mast as it is thrashing about.

I do sail regularly so encounter a range of wind conditions. When it is windy +/- 30 knots I do run before the wind and ensure I keep hold of and keep pressure on the sheet while hauling the furling line (I am always single handed). If you release the sheet and the sail starts flapping the battle is lost. So far I have always managed to furl in a fashion, tidying everything up when back in port.

The most straightforward solution would be if I could find a similar replacement for the WM but with a larger diameter drum which would provide more leverage (I am thinking 1 inch more leverage would make a substantial difference) but I am unable to find such an item. I have come across Gennaker continuous line furlers but am still a long way from understanding how to install one on my boat. One of these solutions would enable me to continue to use my 2 existing jibs.

I agree the WM is in keeping with the overall look of the boat but primarily I require the boat to function safely and efficiently

Mike

 

[MINESAPINT2]

I guess a modern furler such as Furlex with its much larger drum and ease of operation would be considered out of keeping with the boat?
Of course these have foils and require sails with bolt ropes.so your existing suite would be redundant - probably a show stopper. Would be for me.

Except you have a safety issue when you can't easily take power off the headsails. But let's compare favourably; if the breeze is anything over 15 kn I have to put a lot of leverage on my furling line, even take to a winch. I don't think any furler will work easily with power in the sails.

PWG

Thanks Peter,

It is only fair to make a comparison between different systems but here I do have the advantage having a Furlex type on my staysail and the WM on my jib. both sails are a similar size and the WM is always much more difficult to furl obviously in identical conditions.

I guess the Furlex type with the foil is only asked to rotate whereas the WM gear needs to rotate while having a considerable amount of vertical pressure on the bearings.

Mike

 

[Catalina36]

Apparently I am not the first to experience issues furling in increasing wind speed with WM gear. Ultimately as Pete points out if the sail will not furl I would need to lower the sail with the halyard. The sail would probably end up in the water but would be down, but what a mess!. Additionally the top swivel has the potential to make some nasty dents in my lovely wooden mast as it is thrashing about.

I do sail regularly so encounter a range of wind conditions. When it is windy +/- 30 knots I do run before the wind and ensure I keep hold of and keep pressure on the sheet while hauling the furling line (I am always single handed). If you release the sheet and the sail starts flapping the battle is lost. So far I have always managed to furl in a fashion, tidying everything up when back in port.

The most straightforward solution would be if I could find a similar replacement for the WM but with a larger diameter drum which would provide more leverage (I am thinking 1 inch more leverage would make a substantial difference) but I am unable to find such an item. I have come across Gennaker continuous line furlers but am still a long way from understanding how to install one on my boat. One of these solutions would enable me to continue to use my 2 existing jibs.

I agree the WM is in keeping with the overall look of the boat but primarily I require the boat to function safely and efficiently

Mike

If nothing is readily available off the shelf, could you not get a local engineering shop to turn up a larger drum which will fit on to the existing set-up?

 

[Iliade]

Have a look at top-down furling gear. It seems to be a modern take on Whykham Martin. I looked at the Harken stuff but the price scared me off.

I suspect the bicycle shop may become your new favourite chandlery. If your furling drum isn't almost full when the sail is out, try thicker line or add some extra backing line to pad it out to give greater leverage.

 

[duncan99210]

I think that part of the problem may be a desire to keep the sail up for as long as possible in increasing wind. There’s no doubt that the higher the wind speed, the more effort any furling system requires, so part of the solution may be to bring the sail in with the wind speed lower than you’re doing at the moment.
I know I mostly sail a modern AWB but I learned early on with her to reef early. I also learned a similar lesson on my Hurley 18: reducing sail needs to be done before the wind gets too strong rather than after its arrived: it’s much more of a problem with her as it means a sail change for the foresail and an ancient roller reefing boom for the main...

 

[LadyInBed]

It could be that the furler stay is too slack. If with the jib deployed the stay is ) shaped it is bound to be difficult in stronger winds.