fuel lift pumps

[EuanMcKenzie]

trying to solve a wee mystery because I like these challenges.

The lift pump on my Volvo Penta MD21A has failed. It was dripping diesel slowly but enough to be a problem. Having stripped it there is sign of cracking in the diaphragm.

Now this is the peugeot / indenor engine which developed with time and was sold to lots of different folk and so must be partially forward compatible. So there must be a motor trade fuel lift pump available at a fraction of the cost that will do the same job.

Does anyone have the inside knowledge to tell me what equivalent engine lift pump I need from my local motor factors?

 

[daveyw]

There's a screw on top that secures a filter housing. It's often the gasket on this housing that leaks fuel out or air in

 

[pvb]

There's a screw on top that secures a filter housing. It's often the gasket on this housing that leaks fuel out or air in

The OP mentioned that the diaphragm is cracked though....

 

[daveyw]

The OP mentioned that the diaphragm is cracked though....

Oh yeah, I read it as "no sign"! Must pay attention!

 

[Jcorstorphine]

I found this on the Cruiser Forum which may answer your question about the base units.

Quote from Cruiser Forum

The MB21A and MD21B use the Indenor XDP4/90 base engine.
Indenor stands for 'Industrie du Nord Est' which later became part of Peugeot.
The engine was to be found in Peugeot 504s, Citroen J7 vans, Opel Blitzs, Ford (UK) Granadas and a few others besides. It is still (or at least was last time I checked) used in the Mahindra Jeep from India where it is still in production.

In addition to the Volvo Penta marinisation the same base engine was used by Vetus (Netherlands) in their P4-21 and by Lehman as the 4D61. Also lots can be found in the Netherlands just branded 'Indenor bootsmotor' and painted bright red.

Only Volvo to my knowledge went to the lengths of replacing the standard timing chain with timing gears though.

My own is 30 years old and still going strong.
The circulation pump is showing first signs of a problem but there's a company in the UK that will rebuild it for a reasonable price.

I've learned a fair bit about these engines so any questions just ask.
Steve

 

[EuanMcKenzie]

thanks

I had got there in that i buy rocker cover gaskets for the peugeot 404 from my motor factor etc. I also know they carried the engine onto the 505. What i don't know is whether they messed with the interface flange. I found new lift pump on ebay for a 505 diesel that looks similar but not quite sure.

I need a gasket set for heat exchanger overhaul also but I have been quoted £300 ish for the pack from Volvo

The engine still runs very nicely but needs a fuel pump and is also running hotter under higher loads. I think the fresh water side is also a bit gunged up. Going to have a go at it next weekend and decide what to do next based how I get on.

My local motor factor has the drawings for a 505 pump so suggested I bring in the pump to compare notes. Will let you know how I get on.

Have you found a good way way to back flush the raw water system and clear the exchanger without stripping it and rebuilding it?

 

[pandos]

Hi.

I have a similar engine and my lift pump does not function for bleeding purposes, perhaps this would be an option for you to replace with a 12 v pump, it seems from post #4 and 5 that this may be effective..

Certainly the pump is practically silent in operation, once primed.

As an aside, spurious filter for a md21b in a chandlers cost €22.00 original volvo filter from volvo main dealer costs €7.14!!!

Regards

Tony.


http://www.ybw.com/forums/showthrea...ne-fuel-pump&p=4281788&highlight=#post4281788

 

[Ariadne]

I replaced mine with a 12v lift pump, and blocked the other off. I do carry a spare 12v lift pump just in case though!

If you contact these guys http://www.ship2ship.co.uk/ I know they can get hold of all the bits for the MD21B (even the bits VP say are no longer available!), they have found me a new water pump and a complete oil cooler assembly with in the last 12 months and they will ship worldwide. They sent me a catalogue with all part numbers (not VP but easy enough to work from and find the right bit quickly), you tell them what you want, they get it to you from where ever they get it in Europe.

Great service.

 

[EuanMcKenzie]

Got a lift pump from a 505 diesel today that looks different but has the same mounting flange and cam arrangement, cost £20. will try it at the weekend and see if it works. If so I moved us all forward.

ref water circuit - will think about it - but plan to just back flush it with fresh water and see how that helps.

Anyone used an additive that breaks residue from the heat exchangers without damage to copper. Thought about leaving it to soak in something for a while then flush again.

MD21B has different heat exchangers I think but engine otherwise almost identical.

 

[dsw]

blanked off where my lift pump was and put a small facet 12v pump in line and all runs fine.

 

[Ariadne]

As far as gaskets go I bought a complete set from an autoparts shop in Italy for €88.00, VP head gasket alone €280.00! (Federal Mogul part No.GF583), it did contain nearly all gaskets you need, I did have to make the thermostat one though.

It's no too difficult (it is fiddly and a pain though) to get the heat exchanger off to clean and rebuild, if you do check the end caps as the nut assembly corrodes and it will fall at the wrong time!

PM me if you want to, I'm no engineer but I've had my MD21B in bits on many an occasion over the last 7 years, put it all back together and it still runs. If you have have the room there are a few people who have taken the heat exchanger off the front of the engine and mounted above or to the side of it. This way you can access the fuel filters easier (or you could, like me, remove them as well and mount them remotely!).

 

[mtb]

Got a lift pump from a 505 diesel today that looks different but has the same mounting flange and cam arrangement, cost £20. will try it at the weekend and see if it works. If so I moved us all forward.

ref water circuit - will think about it - but plan to just back flush it with fresh water and see how that helps.

Anyone used an additive that breaks residue from the heat exchangers without damage to copper. Thought about leaving it to soak in something for a while then flush again.

MD21B has different heat exchangers I think but engine otherwise almost identical.

my parts book shows different part numbers for the pump but the repair kits are the same the ac delco part number for
the repair kit is NR22. A lucas main dealer should carry that service kit, they also use the same repair kit on opel Renault and the Volvo 264dl / gl

cheers
mick

 

[EuanMcKenzie]

its really the gasket set for the cooling water system I need. The engine itself is actually quite sweet. I have previously stripped off the lot so know how to do it its just the cost of a gasket set that gets me. it seems to have tripled in price since I did it the last time.

Place I bought it from has closed down so maybe that shows why.

 

[Ariadne]

Are you talking about the gasket for the fresh water pump?

You can make one of those, as I remember it you can make most of them on that side if you need to. I'm looking at the drawings for the H/E & cooling system for my engine and the only gaskets are around the thermostat and the end of the exhaust manifold. I've made all of those very easily. DB Marine (01628526032) normally carry the gaskets if you want to but them. Keep the rubber gaskets and inserts and treat them like the gold they are, as they are like hens teeth to find!

 

[EuanMcKenzie]

Its the gaskets for the heat exchanger to allow opening it up and with drawing the plate section for cleaning. I'm going to have ago at cleaning in place with chemical this weekend first though

Euan

 

[Ariadne]

Will these help in anyway? The threads that hold the end plates on went on mine and I had them brazed back in place (in such a way that they could be removed) if needed.



If I remember the correctly the 'bar' is supposed to soldered to the tube! Mine fell off, and I had to reattach it with bandage and plaster of paris as I had no epoxy to make a half decent repair. A simple rubber gasket you could easily make yourself.

 

[EuanMcKenzie]

So I've got the boat going again with some interesting fixes which may be helpful to others

The peugeot 505 lift pump I bought did fit but the outlet nozzle for the delivery hose clashed with the underside of the exhaust manifold. Then I thought what next. I came up with a classic botch. The drillings on the 505 fuel pump flange and the MD21A one both have 6 bolts and almost line up. By drilling out the top half of the MD21A pump holes by 1 mm I had enough flange overlap to bolt nicely on the bottom half of the Peugeot 505 lift pump (which has anew diaphragm). The finished article looks like this
View attachment 34578

and it works beautifully. Only issue is it doesn't have a manual prime so i put a Peugeot inline squeezy hand pump for that.

Total cost of solving the problem about £35 of parts

I also did a lot of driving the boat in gear against a spring and realised raw water flow was not my issue with the engine. I put a descaler through the fresh water side and worked it hard for half an hour. I realised a few things. I had a loose connection on the temperature sender and it was giving spurious readings and also that the cap on the heat exchanger is passing slightly so the fresh side isn't pressurising properly and is allowing a dribble of water to pass. Having flushed the engine three times and back flushed it with a hose I don't have a cooling problem anymore either.

Today has been a good day. Hopefully this will help some of you others that are trying to keep 40 year old MD21A's running.

 

[Ariadne]

That is good news. When I scrap mine It'll be on here for spares!