FUEL filter change

[Caladh]

Sorry - senior moment ! (I did an oil change as well!!) and have deleted my previous post. I just did the winter fuel filter change yesterday on my Yanmar 4JH. The attached picture shows some contents of the filter. It's gooey thick diesel with a reddish tint as you can see. I don't think its the "bug" and this after about 80 hours use. I use Marine 16 with every fill up. It hasn't been a problem as I've seen similar in previous filter changes which I religiously carry out every 100 hours. What do forumites think ?

 

[Boathook]

Is marine 16 an enzyme ?

I would think that the gooey diesel is some sort of bug and it might be worthwhile cleaning the fuel tank if that is possible.

 

[PetiteFleur]

Looks like diesel bug to me.

 

[bluerm166]

Dead diesel bug.Filter is working but there shouldn't be such a load in the tank.

 

[Caladh]

Dead diesel bug.Filter is working but there shouldn't be such a load in the tank.

How did you identify it as “dead” ?

 

[bluerm166]

Maybe wishfully because I have much less but have the same kind of residue after about 120 hours, that doesn't present as jellylike and is caught at the separator.If the M16 works in the tiny ratio specified and is actually religiously/liberally applied to the portable container then it appears to be working.I have wondered whether with a low mileage and no sign of water showing in the filter body glass it is the' jerry can' which ,acting as a sump (I use a syphon to transfer) ,retains any water and diesel dregs for perhaps weeks in a warm locker before being refilled and acts as a reservoir for would-be bug .
Access to my vertical tank is difficult but I do use a Pela vac pump every season to draw debris from over the very bottom using a temporary overlong copper tube.And being stainless steel it is presently full to the brim as a precaution.Having withdrawn and filtered the whole tank contents in the past into clear containers it does appear that nearly all debris settles to the bottom of the tank over a relatively short period so drawing from the extreme bottom (or if you are lucky a sump/draw off) is most effective.
Perhaps a test culture would be enlightening.

 

[Refueler]

How did you identify it as “dead” ?

Basically you do not get LIVE bug in your filters !

Bug can be colours from red through to black ... depends how long its been in the tank and also the fuel you used.

For anyones interest : Marine 16 is not an Enzyme based Bug treatment ... and therefore will not break down the dead bug so that it can be burnt in the engine.
Marine 16 will be killing the bug to prevent it multiplying in your tank .. but you will slowly collect up residue.

Personally I only use Enzyme based Bug killer ... there are various brands on the market ... so not bothered which one ...
That way I keep my bug under control - the dead residue is broken down along with any moisture ... all gets burnt in the engine.

 

[Caladh]

Basically you do not get LIVE bug in your filters !

Bug can be colours from red through to black ... depends how long its been in the tank and also the fuel you used.

For anyones interest : Marine 16 is not an Enzyme based Bug treatment ... and therefore will not break down the dead bug so that it can be burnt in the engine.
Marine 16 will be killing the bug to prevent it multiplying in your tank .. but you will slowly collect up residue.

Personally I only use Enzyme based Bug killer ... there are various brands on the market ... so not bothered which one ...
That way I keep my bug under control - the dead residue is broken down along with any moisture ... all gets burnt in the engine.

Thanks for that. Basically I need a fuel and tank clean then ?

 

[Refueler]

Thanks for that. Basically I need a fuel and tank clean then ?

Get some Enzyme based additive ... anything such as Startron will do the job.

Empty your tank, get a PELA or similar to suck out bottom of tank.
Filter the fuel into containers. Add a good dose of additive. Leave stand for a day or so.
Put back in tank with another good dose of enzyme additive.
Leave for a day or so.
What happens is the enzyme based additive will now not only continue to kill any bug - but will break it up along with any moisute content - so it can pass through and be burnt in the engine.

Now run engine - to get dosed fuel through system ....

No g'tees from me - but that's what I would do ... no need for fancy tactics that basically don't do anything much more than that.

I dose my tanks every so often when refilling ... not every refill - but lets say beginning of season on launch ... then maybe 2x through the season ... with a final dose when lifted out.

 

[Caladh]

Get some Enzyme based additive ... anything such as Startron will do the job.

Empty your tank, get a PELA or similar to suck out bottom of tank.
Filter the fuel into containers. Add a good dose of additive. Leave stand for a day or so.
Put back in tank with another good dose of enzyme additive.
Leave for a day or so.
What happens is the enzyme based additive will now not only continue to kill any bug - but will break it up along with any moisute content - so it can pass through and be burnt in the engine.

Now run engine - to get dosed fuel through system ....

No g'tees from me - but that's what I would do ... no need for fancy tactics that basically don't do anything much more than that.

I dose my tanks every so often when refilling ... not every refill - but lets say beginning of season on launch ... then maybe 2x through the season ... with a final dose when lifted out.

Thanks so much for that. Wonder why non enzyme additives are sold if they leave the crud to gum up again.

 

[Boathook]

Thanks so much for that. Wonder why non enzyme additives are sold if they leave the crud to gum up again.

Cheaper than enzyme ? or they were first on the market.

I use enzyme treatment in the petrol for my outboard in the hope that it will stop the carbs gumming up.

 

[Ian_Edwards]

I wonder if a fuel polishing system would work?
I set one a few years ago when I thought fuel, in the tank, all 400L of it, was infected.
I bought a cheap electric fuel pump, and a simple CAV filter set. I plumbed it in with a long copper pipe as the input which could be poked around the bottom of the tank, accessed though the inspection hatch, and the return through the tank connection normally used by the return from the injector pump.
I used and old car battery, although it could be run off a 12v mains power supply, or the boats 12v system.
I ran it continuously for several days, changing the fuel filter regularly.
I was amazed by the muck in the filters and the water which appeared in fuel filter bowl.

 

[Refueler]

Thanks so much for that. Wonder why non enzyme additives are sold if they leave the crud to gum up again.

I have no answer to that ... I'm in the Oil biz and I do not understand it either.

BUT the non enzyme additives prevent the multiplication of bug infestation. That in itself can be advantage.

I can tell you horror stories of shore storage tanks ... I used to visit one large terminal (I shall not name it - but its in western hemisphere !!) They had on average about 80,000 tons of GasOil (Diesel to you guys ... ).
Tanks were about 20,000 ton capacity each. When we used to check the tanks for shipments out - loading ships - the amount of dead bug on bottom of the tanks was measured over 1 metre on all ...
They never cleared it out in all the years I was involved with their volumes.

 

[Refueler]

I wonder if a fuel polishing system would work?
I set one a few years ago when I thought fuel, in the tank, all 400L of it, was infected.
I bought a cheap electric fuel pump, and a simple CAV filter set. I plumbed it in with a long copper pipe as the input which could be poked around the bottom of the tank, accessed though the inspection hatch, and the return through the tank connection normally used by the return from the injector pump.
I used and old car battery, although it could be run off a 12v mains power supply, or the boats 12v system.
I ran it continuously for several days, changing the fuel filter regularly.
I was amazed by the muck in the filters and the water which appeared in fuel filter bowl.

Fine but it does nothing to eradicate bug infestation. Live bug will pass through your filters ... its a Micro-Organism .... only when its dead and they clag together do you then get clogged systems.

Some of you guys need to see the Lab Petri Dishes when bug is tested and it dies ... for years my lab in Tallinn provided Micro Org testing for all the terminals in the region ... my lab in Riga provided same in Latvia ..

 

[Ian_Edwards]

I agree, but you can, as I did, add an appropriate additive to kill off the bugs.
I was just thinking of a less messy way of clearing up all the dead bugs and stuff.
You can leave the polisher to do it job and get on with something else.

 

[Refueler]

I agree, but you can, as I did, add an appropriate additive to kill off the bugs.
I was just thinking of a less messy way of clearing up all the dead bugs and stuff.
You can leave the polisher to do it job and get on with something else.

I agree that filtering is not a bad idea - but its not an answer on its own.

Treatment with Enzyme based Additive ... let it do its work ... then filtering is a good regime. If done well ... it should not be necessary to go such level again for a long time - if regular Enzyme doses are made to the tank.

 

[Baddox]

Thanks so much for that. Wonder why non enzyme additives are sold if they leave the crud to gum up again.

The non-enzyme chemistries are designed to kill bugs, ideally as a preventative measure before bio contamination starts to multiply. Once the bugs have developed then they need eradicating or the problem will continue to get worse. If contamination was low then the filters should take care of residue, if growth was high then more intensive means of cleaning may be needed.

Enzymes are great at hitting very, very specific substrates. It’s fallacy to think that an enzyme or even a complex cocktail of enzymes will fully lyse a bio-film or bug residue into non-problematic fragments. Even the companies selling enzyme labelled fuel treatment products are vague about how they work.

 

[ylop]

... let it do its work ...

caladh if your username is a clue on your location then bear in mind if you plan do do this this week that it may take longer to do its work in the current weather.

 

[Refueler]

The non-enzyme chemistries are designed to kill bugs, ideally as a preventative measure before bio contamination starts to multiply. Once the bugs have developed then they need eradicating or the problem will continue to get worse. If contamination was low then the filters should take care of residue, if growth was high then more intensive means of cleaning may be needed.

Enzymes are great at hitting very, very specific substrates. It’s fallacy to think that an enzyme or even a complex cocktail of enzymes will fully lyse a bio-film or bug residue into non-problematic fragments. Even the companies selling enzyme labelled fuel treatment products are vague about how they work.

The vagueness is mainly because they want to be rewarded with brand loyalty ... if you were to produce a product and say its no different in action / composition to another brand - what would you be thinking off ??

I already answered that Bug Killer is just that. To kill off the bug before it multiplies and creates a much larger problem. Bug killer does NOT solve the matter of getting the accumulated DEAD bug through the filters etc.

Enzyme based DOES ... it not only kills near all forms of Bug - it also breaks it up to pass it through the engine.

People need to understand that Bug comes basically in 4 forms with two subdivisions :

Yeast
Mould
Bacteria
Microbic string

With not only their normal division where YMB are encountered with respect to water interface - but a further subdivision that also includes the 4th - Sulphur Reducing which can have it living in the fuel itself ... a more rare bug now due to % Sulphur levels in fuel at very low levels.

 

[Caladh]

caladh if your username is a clue on your location then bear in mind if you plan do do this this week that it may take longer to do its work in the current weather.

Sorry - it’s not ! I’m now thinking of the next steps….