From 'liveaboard lurker' to credit crunch reality

phanakapan

phanakapan

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From \'liveaboard lurker\' to credit crunch reality

Hi all- have been reading avidly on this forum for years, as the plan was to go longterm cruising on a bigger boat than we currently have, from about Summer 2011 when my partners' youngest will be off to uni, probably. However, we've been 'crunched' as it were and we are in a flurry of building work/putting a house on the market/throwing away possessions in order to move onto the boat this summer, then carry on working for a couple of years. At 33', I reckon our boat is nearer the lower limit that 2 people can comfortably liveaboard- I think we will feel like we are 'caravanning' rather than 'camping', but that's fine...isn't it?

My question is- how 'homely' do you keep your boat? Is she so full of potplants and cushions and crystal wineglasses and ornaments etc etc that it would take you a month to prepare for sailing- or could you stow for sea and cast off in ten minutes?
Is there any object from your old house that you secretly wish you hadn't sold/thrown/given away?
As you can tell, I'm struggling a bit with the 'downsizing of posessions' bit- not from a materialistic point of view, but emotional attachment to things hat trigger memories . My grandmother's opera glasses, christmas tree decorations etc etc.I thought I might take a photo and/or write a list of some objects, then after they'd been charity shopped or whatever I could still use the list as an aide-memoire. Or if I sold stuff then I would deliberately buy something for the boat with the money and make a note somewhere like 'The handbearing compass is actually my Dad's old trumpet'

I think I might be struggling less if we were just about to set off sailing- but we'll be using the boat as a static home for a while.

Cheers

Pip

ps anyone wanna buy some bagpipes??!
 
Re: From \'liveaboard lurker\' to credit crunch reality

If it's any consolation Pip the same problem has affected most who live-a-board I suspect, and I'm not talking of the part timers who live ashore still but move aboard for a few months in the summer. When I sold up ashore I too had a house full of odds and ends of sentimental value, things my late wife had owned etc: I bought a 8x6 security container and paid a small 'rent' to someone to leave it in their yard. The boat was still crowded with useless objects but over a period they were "weeded" out and stowed in the container and eventually life got more organised. Slowly, over a period of time many of the items from the container have been given away, sometimes to charities, some claimed by my kids or family friends. Personally I would be inclined not to throw everything away as soon as you sell up, give yourself time to realise just what is most treasured, you'll be surprised! As for being ready to sail at a moments notice..ha! looking around as I type..you're kidding! Like a lot of permanent live-a-boards I imagine, in the depths of winter few of us are ready to sail without some serious sorting out to do. It's part of the life style mate, part of the excitement (well it is for me anyway..)as the voyage date approaches we're all changing from chrysalis to butterflies...3 months and counting.. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif
 
Re: From \'liveaboard lurker\' to credit crunch reality

Well my advice, for what it's worth, is to make the experience as comfortable as possible. Particularly if you are hoping that this is to be a long term lifestyle change.

Yes 33' is on the small side but Lynne and Larry Pardey have been cruising for over 30 years on 27' so it can be done. The secret is to have the best that you can afford that fits the space available. Maybe there is room for just two wine glasses but why not make them ones that you really like rather than compromising?

I suggest that you read some of the Pardey's books, particularly the 'cost conscious cruiser' to get an idea of the refinements that they have managed to incorporate in their cruising lives.

From a personal perspective we have made our boat as homely as we want. We have real glass, real china, pictures, cushions etc. No freezer, no microwave, paraffin lights. It's horses for courses!

www.gerryantics.blogspot.com
 
Re: From \'liveaboard lurker\' to credit crunch reality

An interesting question.

Boats parked up somewhere - marina or long-term mooring - do tend to 'get comfortable' which means they become less and less available to go off sailing at short notice, whim or opportunity. Similar to that 'harbour sickness' where to get the boat ready, untie and head off beyond the entrance, seems like something for tomorrow, maybe, not today. Conversely, we've found that when cruising we don't stop in interesting places long enough; there seems to be an underlying pressure to keep on moving and 'get somewhere'. Weird.

Familiar possessions. Yes, we have some. A beautiful watercolour painted by eldest son's father in law. Books, lots of them. We do have some wineglasses, but cheap ones because we live cheap (or try to) and buy cheap and that's a part of what we do now, that we enjoy. We had plastic crockery, 'cos that seemed sensible, but it's horrible and we'll replace with proper chinaware. Have some cushions. Etc. etc. But no potted plants or nick-knacks, really because we're not nick-knacks kind of people. Some people do, horse brasses and all that malarky, but not for us. We actually enjoyed the cathartic process of selling, giving away or dumping most of our stuff. The children have got some of it, so we do see it again from time to time. But the increased simplicity of not being burdened by so much stuff, even sentimental souvenirs, is what we're up to. That frees us to enjoy 'other things' and do 'other things'.

Regrets? I flogged off, for a pittance, my collection of LPs. Of course that was very sensible: heavy, bulky, mainly not appreciated by anyone other than me, certainly not the boys. I had some rare - obscure, should I say - items and - illogically - I miss them. I know I can get lots of them onto my MP3 player, have done, but nevertheless . . .

Ho hum. /forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif
 
Re: From \'liveaboard lurker\' to credit crunch reality

Hi there Pip and how exciting! RG is a bit bigger but many of the same problems apply, but we were helped by this Pip's experience of emigrating from NZ with very little. She had seen lots of kiwi friends spend a fortune on storage which they revisited 5 years later and threw away!

We had an iterative approach which sorted things into ever decreasing piles of stuff to keep while other stuff was car booted/garage sold/given away/charity shopped. Some things are still with us - not least my grandfather's field binoculars and Pip's granny's beloved cruet set. Not that either of them are ever used but they come out occasionally to be cooed at!

Also - we try to empty every locker at least once and preferably twice a year and it's surprising what then gets chucked - it's not always a final choice.

Hardest things - pictures. We had (have) quite a collection. A few are on our bulkheads, others are fostered with friends and we visit them when we visit the friends! A few have been in lofts and so on for all this time. Also some of the fancier clothes. I know some people on here will scoff but for some of us girls that can be an issue. Plus if you are still working, as you suggest, being able to get the right clothes sorted out is a serious issue. We work part of the time and it's crucial to smarten up. However, the wardrobe has changed - lots of easily managed separates, far fewer (FAR fewer) shoes, scarves to change the 'look', only one suit. One dry hanging locker is really useful from this point of view, plus a lot of vaccuum bags. And a vacuum sucker!)

As this suggests - friends' lofts can be very useful - and free!

What do we wish we'd kept? There are a few books (on top of the 500-odd we do carry!) Maybe some of the kitchen equipment that you think you won't need - eg we replaced the blender stick in the end. Curtains that you like where you can cut down and reuse the fabric.

Oh yes - if you don't have one get an ipod! We sold the CDs to pay for it (as an early adopter) and the space saving is huge. Keep the hobby stuff - if you like to draw make room for the pad and pencils.

I guess though, particularly for the small, much-loved items we took the view that ordinary stuff was replaceable but they weren't - so we made room for them.

Keep in touch and enjoy the adventure.
 
Re: From \'liveaboard lurker\' to credit crunch reality

I don't think there is anyone who has sold up and sailed away that doesn't identify with your mixed emotions.

I was told that the hardest part was "the road out of town" which of course refers to the process you are going through right now.

Two years on, we don't even think about the material things we disposed of, even if they did have sentimental value. Nor do we think about the things we stored with family. They did seem important at the time but they don't now.

Turning to comfort; I think this is really important, but very personal, and it is right that you pay attention to it. Something that is a minor irritant during a fortnight's holiday can drive you crazy on a permanent basis. But have confidence, you will find and deal with these issues.

As for your comment about readiness for sea, well that is also very pertinent. I think an admiral once said in the old sailing days "Ports rot ships and they rot the men in them".

I find after any length of time in port it takes us time to get properly organasied for sea again, and the longer it has been the longer the preparation takes -and I am amazed how rusty I get too!

Good luck with the plan. All we missed in the end was family and friends, nothing material. Now we just wish we had done it earlier.
 
Re: From \'liveaboard lurker\' to credit crunch reality

Getting rid of stuff was the hardest thing mainly because we had not released just how much stuff we (and the kids) had until we started shifting it. For weeks we had to walk the kids a different way to school because otherwise they would see all their things in the charity shop window! As the time to move onboard got nearer the more ruthless we became, had to become.

No plants (in my opinion soil and boats don’t mix very well) hardly any bits and bobs, plastic plates (glass) glasses but cheap ones which we replace every year. But the largest cabin is set up as a play room (for the kids but I would quite like one too) and each of them have their own cabin and these are full of kids things. We tried but failed to train the relatives from buying giant castles, doll houses and train sets for Christmas and birthdays’ I think they continued to do it out of a perverse sense of humour.

I quite often replaced books that I have previously thrown away because of a lack of space. Anyway books die of mildew after a few winters so natural wastage helps keep their numbers down.

I have seen boats with musical instruments hung from bulk heads so that crew or visitors can give them a try. You might do that with your dad’s trumpet.

Best wishes with your plans.
 
Re: From \'liveaboard lurker\' to credit crunch reality

Very interesting thread, especially for those of us still lurking.

Steve - you are obviously happy and pleased with what you are doing, but you made a clear voluntary decision to go that way. I just wonder if it would be any different for those that become liveaboards because they have to - eg for financial reasons.

SWMBO and I have often said we wouldn't want to live aboard because the boat is an 'escape', a big toy, a home away from home. If she becomes home itself, we lose those three attractions.... we think.

Also there is the fear of becoming what somebody else referred to around here as 'The Rottings'. ie getting old and sick on a deteriorating boat, maybe struggling to survive financially, in not very nice location, getting sunburnt and becoming alcoholics.

Maybe this sounds a bit negative, but I'm kind of thinking that the liveaboard life is not entirely a bed of roses.
 
Re: From \'liveaboard lurker\' to credit crunch reality

[ QUOTE ]
Maybe this sounds a bit negative, but I'm kind of thinking that the liveaboard life is not entirely a bed of roses.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think SWMBO agrees that, if the poo really hit the fan, we would reasonably happily liveaboard. I would definitely be happy with it.

The house can generate/save cash, whereas the boat couldnt.

Having said that, living aboard a 44 footer would be somewhat more comfortable than a 33 footer.
 
Re: From \'liveaboard lurker\' to credit crunch reality

Depends where you are living though.

UK weather not suitable more than 6 months a year.
Risk of getting clobbered for tax in Spain.
South of France expensive?
etc etc...

If you keep moving around, do you get settled in one location, then up-anchor and have to start afresh in the next?

My guess is that it is down to individual preferences, ability to cope, etc and the simple answer is that there is no simple answer.
 
Re: From \'liveaboard lurker\' to credit crunch reality

Nick you raise very valid points, here is an honest attempt at answering them!
To take your points in order Nick: -
1. Forced by financial circumstances: Can't comment about those that do it because they “have” to, except to observe that under such circumstances life would be what you made it, as with any other set back in life, ashore or afloat.
2. Lose the attractions of escape, big toy, home away from home? I can understand your concerns, I had similar concerns myself that the shine would wear off and life would become mundane. The reality however is that has not happened and we find life a wonderful kaleidoscope of experiences, people and places.
I was also worried that the two of us in a 42ft space would find life cramped and irritating -but we didn't and with time the boat seems to have got bigger and bigger. It has become our home and we are very fond of it. So the boat has become our permanent escape, a big toy we play with/on every day and our wonderful home with views you wouldn't believe.
3. The rottings, old, broke, ill, alcoholic and sunburnt! Very real dangers I think and not to be taken lightly. So let’s take them in turn.
Old: This is going to sound like it was stolen from a 1-minute manger or similar but it isn’t!
I was playing golf with a friend of mine who was distraught because his marriage of 30 years had come to an end at a time of his life, which he saw as a golden period, as he had plenty of money and the kids had grown up.
He pointed out to me that he had made his money out of running nursing homes and that he was always amazed at how everyone left all their plans until they retired at 60 odd. He drew my attention to the fact that his homes were full of people under that age, in poor health, but who might live to be 70 or 80. His message to me was “we may all reasonably expect to live a long time but we must get out there and do it whilst we still physically can”. We are all going to get old and become worm food, surely its what we do before we go that is really important?
Broke: We made the decision to live simply, on a limited budget, and having given up a reasonable income I did wonder how I would take to this. On reflection it is the best decision we have ever made. Just think about how many times you eat out at a restaurant, and of all those meals how many are actually worth the money? Precious few in my experience.
Contrast that with a meal in the cockpit, under a Mediterranean sky ,prepared from food bought from the local market and perhaps fish caught an hour earlier. Completely and absolutely no contest! We have found that we can live very happily, joyfully even, on a budget that would be considered subsistence in the UK - and that include copious amounts of beer and wine.

Ill: We insure against the cost of medical treatment and the need for repatriation. Other than that I guess we are in the same situation as if we lived here. One thing is for sure, it will happen eventually, the question is shall we let it stop us living now?
Alcoholic: We have met quite a few people who spend their lives in an alcoholic haze which seems to start around 11 am. It is something that concerns us. We try to ensure both that we are moderate and that we don't take a drink before 6pm. Sometimes life is such fun and you get invited onto so many others boats (and of course return the favour) that it can be difficult. We haven't had such a busy social life for years. Sometimes, we are just plain self indulgent and break our 6 pm rule. Are we becoming alcoholics? No I don't think so.
Sunburnt: When you live in the sun all the time you treat it differently, yes you can get burnt, but when every day is hot you tend to find the shade whenever you can... but this was never one of your serious worries was it?
The bottom line Nick is that you are like a swimmer stood on the edge of the pool ,ready to dive in but concerned about how cold and how deep the water is. If you dive in you may hate it, if you don't you will never know what it is like.
I can tell you what it was like for us, but only you can decide for you!
 
I Empathise with Grehan

but I'm just in the process of converting 188 LPs to MP3 and storing them on a 2.5" HDD. I could then burn them to CD or just leave them there and play them on the boat, either through the laptop or (in due course) direct to the radio/cassette player via a USB port.
What is really intriguing is how valuable these out-of-catalogue LPs are. I never thought I had such good taste.

The big challenge is not to have to invest in a iPod Classic to merely have an indexing system.

I do think the future of music (and video) on board lies in having everything converted to MP3 or MP4.

I've got 320 CD copies on the boat ( most originals at home) and intend, in due course, to put those to on HDD. That should take up about 48Gb of hard disk space and free up some valuable shelf-space (for books). Still can't get on with e-books!!
 
Being acquainted

with the Pardey's I wouldn't advise anyone to copy them - seriously eccentric in everything, including boating.

I know a couple who are wandering the world on a 29' (mind it's nearly as beamy as long), being a late Laurent Giles design.

I, personally, find a 31' large enough for 1 in luxury, 2 in comfort and 4 in bitter enmity.

The challenge is having enough storage, no boat yet built allows you to hoard things as you do on land (that includes the 72' Beowulf).

I cheat, the house in England has an enormous cellar, that's full to bursting.
 
Re: From \'liveaboard lurker\' to credit crunch reality

Hi Pip.
Browsing the forums I come across your post. Got a little distracted by Silver Fox,s reply to Moody Nick, and by what was written has me now twitching. However, I have a friend from my own town that I met by chance as she walked past a restaurant I was sitting in at Brighton. She (described as such as she is female) has finished a 2 year world tour. We discussed giving up and going. What I asked was, all the things that really need to be kept hold of. The answer was that photos hold the most importance and not that of anything material. Her mum had given her a ring but other than that if after a few months she did not need it or miss it then why keep it?
When she left two years ago I admit she was a confused soul. A social worker, completely f*cked with the admistrative bull of the UK.
I have met a new person, inspired to be honest.
She said, "9 to 5, no way 41 to 90 years, yes! and I am free".
Sounds very hippy but lets face it, its better than being told you must voice an opinion anymore, for fear of being racist facist, homophobic or clauastophobic. Cant spell eever.
 
Re: From \'liveaboard lurker\' to credit crunch reality

Re moodynick comments. You are clearly not ready for a liveaboard lifestyle yet. We lived liveaboard in uk for two years before setting off traveling. Weather not a problem 6 months of year as you suggest. (well no more than in a house in UK). We met more people who have remained friends in the first month than we did in 12 years of suburban living where people barely know their neighbours. The spanish taxes situation may be relevant but there are a lot more countries even in the med that do not have such laws. Re being forced to adopt lifestyle????? Many people would rather live in a pleasant marine environment on a wholly owned boat than suburban mortgage land. Very pleasant boats from say 35K. How much house do you get for this and in what sort of area. It is not a question of being forced it is a freely made choice. Those of us who choose to live aboard tend to feel that the lifestlye available for any given budget is better as a liveaboard than as a suburbanite.
Many people hop aboard rather than live aboard but you obviously need a larger budget and a liking for a more settled existence. Living aboard is not always wonderful but it is better for us than living ashore. More highs and possibly more lows but we are living rather than existing.
 
Re: From \'liveaboard lurker\' to credit crunch reality

I've been reading this post with interest, as I'm about to set off in the next couple of months, and have been partly living aboard this winter - yes in the UK. Not too bad at all, to be frank- but maybe because i have been living aboard with the sure knowledge I'm heading south shortly. (If I was here permanently, I wouldn't feel the same).

I've gone the whole hog and have no house... actually at first that felt very odd because my conditioning from an early age was about the necessity of house ownership. I had to move out of my house (divorce) and could have bought another, but at that time (nearly 2 years ago) I became convinced that house prices would fall, so I held off. In the meantime, I rented... even that was a shock and a big transition. I did lots of sailing and started to think about liveaboard lifestyles.. did a test 6 weeks round britain, and then decided to buy a boat instead of a house, but still not 100% sure.

Now, just over a year on, I feel sort of liberated.. Its difficult to describe- I no longer want to buy a house - in fact I can't envisage ever doing so again, because the freedom firstly of renting, and now of living essentially in a moving home is just indescribable. I had a major turning point about 6 weeks ago when I realised it is all about having much more choice- where to be, to live, etc. coupled with much less responsibility (for house, maintenance, bills etc.)- or perhaps responsibility of a different sort. I'm already finding the friendliness and community fantastic - just what I've been missing for several years

Perhaps my main point is that it can take time to adjust and change mental attitude. I remember talking to a full time liveaboard about three years ago and feeling sort of sorry for them as they hadn't a house- they were sort of a poor relation. Now I view it quite differently. Its taken me some adjustment time.. but boy do I feel better - paradigm shifts and all that.
 
Re: From \'liveaboard lurker\' to credit crunch reality

[ QUOTE ]
living rather than existing.

[/ QUOTE ]Agreed, that's the whole point. But (ref moodynick) it certainly is not a bed of roses either. It is not some variety of carefree extended holiday, margaritas on the aft deck every afternoon.
As for "its better than being told you must voice an opinion anymore, for fear of being racist facist, homophobic or clauastophobic". This kind of nonsense is what is spouted by the sawn-off tee-shirt wearing, fat belly bursting, St George's flag waving, only English speaking, cheap-apartment-owning, ex-patriots that crowd into the pie and chips cafes around Fuengirola marina. Not by (most) liveaboards who in our experience are a good deal more friendly and tolerant - indeed, that's another reason for 'escaping', you meet such good and interesting people, and make such great friendships.
 
Re: From \'liveaboard lurker\' to credit crunch reality

Grateful for your comments, and interested too, but on the basis that you know nothing about me, my house, boat, social life or circumstances, you can't really tell if I am ready or not.

Some of my questions are more hypothetical than real, but may apply to others.

The original poster was asking about how to adapt to living aboard driven by need now rather than choice later, best we keep to that theme, I think.
 
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