From Chichester you have to beat west, or motor. Rules for comfort.

[FairweatherDave]

After last weekend's upwind slog from Chichester to Cowes directly into a force five westerly I am pondering what other Chichester harbour based folk would have done. Or another way, the expression Gentleman don't beat to windward really means you might often never leave the harbour. So what rules of thumb do Chichester based folk use in interpreting forecasts with the intention of getting to the Solent/Isle of Wight. I appreciate flexibilty is a good idea, we could have made Bembridge or stopped at Portsmouth with the westerly direction. But really I am up for some simple rules of thumb for planning purposes leaving Chichester when the wind is between S to W to NW. (Well aware of strong southerly issues on the bar). I am happy using the engine but the sea state made heading west pretty unpleasant whatever.

I wasn't taken by surprise last weekend but had I known quite how challenging it was I might have gone for a plan B.

 

[lw395]

I don't know where this 'gents don't beat to windward' thing came from, but it's nonsense.
A lot of the sea state is about the tide, so you should consider whether you want to avoid the worst of the wind against tide, or make the most of progress with it.
If you start west early in the W going tide, you might miss the worst of the chop.
Trouble is from Chi marina, that means leaving the harbour against the flood.
Avoiding the deep water (especially the edges of the deep channel) in the Solent when the Westgoing is at its peak rate might help.
Conversely, the shallow ish bits off Hayling are often lumpy compared with further out.
Motoring against Solent chop is unpleasant and slow.

If you wanted to avoid beating, your best plan would have been a reach to St Vaast or Cherbourg.

A lot of yachts do indeed stay in Chi Harbour. A few others go to Bembridge a lot.

Best advice might be to make sure your boat is as good as it can be on a stiff beat.
Make sure the reefing gear works nicely, make sure everything is secure to avoid unnecessary anxiety, reef and go for it.
If the tide is with you, you don't have to sail for the last ounce of speed.

 

[Poey50]

After last weekend's upwind slog from Chichester to Cowes directly into a force five westerly I am pondering what other Chichester harbour based folk would have done. Or another way, the expression Gentleman don't beat to windward really means you might often never leave the harbour. So what rules of thumb do Chichester based folk use in interpreting forecasts with the intention of getting to the Solent/Isle of Wight. I appreciate flexibilty is a good idea, we could have made Bembridge or stopped at Portsmouth with the westerly direction. But really I am up for some simple rules of thumb for planning purposes leaving Chichester when the wind is between S to W to NW. (Well aware of strong southerly issues on the bar). I am happy using the engine but the sea state made heading west pretty unpleasant whatever.

I wasn't taken by surprise last weekend but had I known quite how challenging it was I might have gone for a plan B.

Our mooring is in Itchenor. Given the prevailing winds tend more to the south-west, the Isle of Wight reduces the size of the fetch and therefore the wave height and steepness. So we don't generally find the Eastern Solent much of a restriction. Rather more tricky in the Western Solent with the wind funnelling through especially as Hurst narrows means you have to respect that tidal gate. But, as ever, decisions are made on a round-up of all conditions and gates on the day. There's always Bembridge which, at this time of year, is a lovely quiet destination for a lazy weekend.

 

[DJE]

Were you motoring directly to windward? It is usually more comfortable to set a bit of mainsail - trimmed as flat as possible - and motor at about 30 degrees to the true wind. Put tacks in as required. It's usually flatter under the island shore in a southwesterly but you get strong gusts and big shifts off the land.

 

[FairweatherDave]

Were you motoring directly to windward? It is usually more comfortable to set a bit of mainsail - trimmed as flat as possible - and motor at about 30 degrees to the true wind. Put tacks in as required. It's usually flatter under the island shore in a southwesterly but you get strong gusts and big shifts off the land.

Yes, I was trying to motor sail efficiently to windward. So as you describe we had just the mainsail, with a single reef. I was trying to make the island shore for a bit of shelter and an easier sea state. Reality was we were making just about 4 knots max while the tide was slack/maybe even a bit helpful. Bearing in mind it was force 5 or the top of a force 4. (I am remembering reading lw395's comments in Magical Armchair's thread about heeling and the engine running and oil levels).
So perhaps my first rule of thumb should simply be don't choose a target directly upwind if the wind is the top of force 4 and sea state is choppy.

 

[FairweatherDave]

I don't know where this 'gents don't beat to windward' thing came from, but it's nonsense.
A lot of the sea state is about the tide, so you should consider whether you want to avoid the worst of the wind against tide, or make the most of progress with it.
If you start west early in the W going tide, you might miss the worst of the chop.
Trouble is from Chi marina, that means leaving the harbour against the flood.
Avoiding the deep water (especially the edges of the deep channel) in the Solent when the Westgoing is at its peak rate might help.
Conversely, the shallow ish bits off Hayling are often lumpy compared with further out.
Motoring against Solent chop is unpleasant and slow.

If you wanted to avoid beating, your best plan would have been a reach to St Vaast or Cherbourg.

A lot of yachts do indeed stay in Chi Harbour. A few others go to Bembridge a lot.

Best advice might be to make sure your boat is as good as it can be on a stiff beat.
Make sure the reefing gear works nicely, make sure everything is secure to avoid unnecessary anxiety, reef and go for it.
If the tide is with you, you don't have to sail for the last ounce of speed.

My feeling on this particular day was wind against tide issues and depth didn't make much difference. Tide was pretty slack until we were close to the Isle of Wight. I think being westerly it just had a good long fetch all the way through the Solent. I don't think my bilge keel Konsort is the best for going upwind either. We did do okay, we got there safely and as planned but it was a endurance challenge for my wife and daughter and in that respect I failed.

As to the joys of being located in Chichester harbour it is quite hard to leave. And we do enjoy Bembridge. I remember reading about the benefits of having a berth more centrally in the Solent. But then if you visit Chichester from the West you still have the challenge of having to get home. We are at the top of the Emsworth channel/ Sweare Deep, so had a great sail straight out to the West Pole. That is the advantage over Itchenor/Chi Marina.

Meanwhile Cherbourg/ St Vast remain an ambition, but I am pretty sure I need a stronger crew.

 

[lw395]

But where else do you go?
Run down to LA, Arun YC is very nice, but then you've got a long beat back on Sunday.
I would say main only is a mistake. A small jib or well rolled genoa will give better balance and easier sailing. If the boat is sailing better, it's easier to sail around the worst peaks of the chop.
Wear good kit so a bit of spray doesn't make you cold or grumpy.
Attack it with an attitude that you want to get better at sailing upwind.

Sailing well upwind is tough, it's a challenge. Like a lot of sports I suppose, not that I'd know, I'm terrible at all other sports!
It can be rewarding to put the hours and effort in to get better at it.

Alternatively, If I wuz you, I wouldn't have started from there....

 

[FairweatherDave]

Our mooring is in Itchenor. Given the prevailing winds tend more to the south-west, the Isle of Wight reduces the size of the fetch and therefore the wave height and steepness. So we don't generally find the Eastern Solent much of a restriction. Rather more tricky in the Western Solent with the wind funnelling through especially as Hurst narrows means you have to respect that tidal gate. But, as ever, decisions are made on a round-up of all conditions and gates on the day. There's always Bembridge which, at this time of year, is a lovely quiet destination for a lazy weekend.

Cheers Poey. Bembridge would have been perfect. The only reason we soldiered on to Cowes was my desire to see what it was all about, as really I would like to be a lot more familiar with it. We were rewarded with a glorious return on the Sunday which is now all that springs to mind. Funnily enough when I had been studying the forecasts I thought the Sunday would be a boring motor back in light winds

 

[FairweatherDave]

But where else do you go?
Run down to LA, Arun YC is very nice, but then you've got a long beat back on Sunday.
I would say main only is a mistake. A small jib or well rolled genoa will give better balance and easier sailing. If the boat is sailing better, it's easier to sail around the worst peaks of the chop.
Wear good kit so a bit of spray doesn't make you cold or grumpy.
Attack it with an attitude that you want to get better at sailing upwind.

Sailing well upwind is tough, it's a challenge. Like a lot of sports I suppose, not that I'd know, I'm terrible at all other sports!
It can be rewarding to put the hours and effort in to get better at it.

Alternatively, If I wuz you, I wouldn't have started from there....

I like sailing upwind. I know I could improve too. Is your using the furled genoa comment about sailing or motorsailing?
But my initial bit about "Gentlemen don't beat" is really about looking after crew who don't want the heeling over stuff.
It was the sea state and slamming from time to time that was unpopular.

 

[BobnLesley]

...We were rewarded with a glorious return on the Sunday which is now all that springs to mind. Funnily enough when I had been studying the forecasts I thought the Sunday would be a boring motor back in light winds

And that's your 'silver lining'. Based in Chi but weekending in the Solent, you're doing the hard bit on Fri/Sat, or indeed if the weather really isn't conducive, just deferring the trip until next weekend and staying within the shelter of Chi Harbour. Those coming in the opposite direction meanwhile, consult the weather forecasts, get their 'glorious run' on Fri/Sat in the expectation of 'a boring motor back in light winds' on the Sunday. However, if Sunday's forecast then changes they might well be beating/motoring home in the sort of weather in which you'd be staying within Chi Harbour.

 

[bobgarrett]

We are also based in chichester harbour and our club has regular races to destinations in the Solent. So we often head West on Saturday and east on a Sunday so some days you win and some you lose.
Since they races there is no motor-sailing. It is interesting to see the tactics: close to the mainland, close to the island, mid channel. Key is using the tide, sail trim and watching the VMG. You learn a lot this way.
Of course some boats do it better and some have better sails.
Bottom line is sail well and remember goimg downwind means that at sometime you have to go upwind - in general!

 

[ashtead]

As per post 4 we made our way part of way to Cowes with one reef but making a good pace with tide . It's rather inevitable I suspect that if based in Chi or Portsmouth that you end up beating to windward but not that bad if tide is with you

 

[DJE]

And take heart, early in the season we often get quite a bit of north or northeast wind.

 

[lw395]

I like sailing upwind. I know I could improve too. Is your using the furled genoa comment about sailing or motorsailing?
But my initial bit about "Gentlemen don't beat" is really about looking after crew who don't want the heeling over stuff.
It was the sea state and slamming from time to time that was unpopular.

In F5, I wouldn't be motor sailing.
Reef to keep the heeling reasonable.
Best way to look after crew is quite often to put them on the helm.
Try sailing a little more off the wind.
I don't know what will work best for your boat.

 

[gregcope]

We are based in Chichester.

We try to be at the bar at HW-1 to get the west tide lift.

Often stay close to NE Island shore (Rye). This can reduce the fetch / waves and wind being in the lea of the island. Depending on tide you can be North or South of the Shipping channel south edge to be in shallow/deeper water. This just leaves the area outside Cowes to negotiate, which if going into Cowes is easy, if going further west can be bouncy as the fetch opens up from the west for a long way.

We can often motor sail west to be honest. If windy sail just off the wind with a reefed main. Our yacht is okay at doing this, does not slam much. Crew hide behind an effective Sparyhood and Arnold the Autohelm (well B&G ram ...) steers. If (really) lumpy we might adjust course to flatten it out as there is no point bashing on the nose for a long distance.

To be fair, although you might have to go upwind from Chichester to get into the solent in the prevailing wind, you are often rewarded with great downwind or beam reach returns ... usually in glorious sunshine!

 

[dunedin]

Many modern boats slam worse motoring than they do when sailing - the sails damp the motion a bit and often the modern hull shapes seem to slam less heeled over.
In a F5 we often sail upwind faster than the boats motoring upwind. But it does need a boat designed to sail well, and to be setup well for efficient windward work
- sails in good condition, with foam luff essential on jib
- fully battened main with slab reefing - and careful attention to cunningham/ luff tension to ensure sail depth always stays 1/3 to 1/2 way back (baggy sails create drag and heel, a lose /lose combination)
- sails trimmed properly (so often see the jib sheeted too loosely with the leech flapping)
Setup efficiently it can be a joy romping fast upwind, pointing higher and going quicker than boats which have just thrown old sails up anyhow which get rapidly left behind. (Not suggestion the OP is in this category, but we do see so many boats setup wrongly reaching back and forward and demoralising their crews with snail like progress).

 

[FairweatherDave]

Thanks folks. I would love a new fully battened main and I am sure that would make a significant difference to my pointing ability. Not sure when that might happen.
I will admit we got impatient to get moving and should have waited another hour to get a more helpful tide. I was so keen to get to the boat we were actually early for my plans which is unheard of. I think we were at the West Pole more like 2 hours before HW.
But my intention for the thread was to tap the experience of Chichester old timers at the planning stage for an overnight in the Solent. If it is a moderate/fresh Westerly target Bembridge. South Westerly or North westerly is a better angle for Cowes/Beaulieu. No fun then head to Portsmouth.

 

[Old Harry]

What yacht class is this

 

[Channel Sailor]

Based on the yacht you appear to have, Springs tides and West F5 with gusts into F6 or maybe WSW wind then I would agree with what others have said above: sail on a Reach quickly against the tide down from Emsowrth area, leave entrance at HW-1 to HW, head over to the IOW shore on first tack to pick up the strongest NW going tide to pull you through the Eastern Forts area. Beat to windward until skipper and crew are fed up with the motion and have had enough excitement, by then you could be either near Ryde or better still by Wotton Creek. Also at this time the wind will probably headed you a little with a more north in it, so drop/furl the sails, put the kettle on, put the cushions back on the bunks, pick up the stuff that slipped on the saloon floor and motor close ish along the IOW shore towards Osbourne Bay, if sheltered in the bay and the west going tide has run out then maybe anchor at the western end of Osbourne Bay close in as depth will allow but not too far west that you get the swell coming around the headland. Settle down for a late afternoon/early evening meal, enjoy watching the world shipping go by in the Solent, over canvased yachts being flattened in the gusts in the mid channel, and watching the weather in the distance passing over the mainland (aka North Island). When the tide/weather changes or later when suits crew and skipper then move on to maybe pop around the corner west to Cowes, Beaulieu, further west or head back home downwind. Or if anchoring for more than a few hours with a bit of movement does not suit those on board then, motor west against the tide around the headland into the new small boat channel into Cowes. On this trip remember to allow for the apparent wind increasing in the deeper water channels and when boat speed increases in flatter water.

Escape options:- Bembridge assuming you get there before the tide falls too much, so do not linger on the first leg or leave Chi' late. Portsmouth of course is the best alternative option for shelter and comfort by far but check the predicted strength of the tide in the entrance for the time you might want to go in, simply blast Reach in (with engine on because of local regs). If in Osbourne Bay and the wind picks up too much for you then it is perfect viable option to blast on a beam Reach back to Portsmouth even at low tide for shelter. If too rough for you and crew when you pass first West Pole at HW, or when looking west it looks too nasty for you, then turn around and go back into Chi immediately before the ebb starts.

Would I do that trip in a proper solid F5 Westerly with my fair weather only wife and a young daughter on a similar boat, no. But I suppose it depends on what they enjoy from sailing.

 

[Seajet]

Were you motoring directly to windward? It is usually more comfortable to set a bit of mainsail - trimmed as flat as possible - and motor at about 30 degrees to the true wind. Put tacks in as required. It's usually flatter under the island shore in a southwesterly but you get strong gusts and big shifts off the land.

+1

Hopefully your main clew has an adjustable outhaul, in those conditions it should be pulled tight to flatten the sail.

It often pays to put in long tacks and go between the forts - keeping an eye out for ships - top tip, if you see a ferry look round 180 degrees for his mate coming the other way - tacking motorsailing - or hopefully just sailing - is a lot faster and more pleasant and fuel efficient than motoring straight to windward.

You do get larger waves between the forts so have hatches shut and harnesses on - if the jib is stowed on the foredeck make sure it's secure - it's not for nothing the J Class invented ' Solent Jibs ' which are set high with a high cut clew to avoid catching Solent Chop and also aid visibility.

Also if on the bee line between the Dolphin and Chi entrance watch out for the lobster pot markers kindly placed exactly en route - small dark blue plastic cans.

The good things about usually beating to Cowes,

it's only 15 miles but even now I get a sense of achievement when tying up, either at the Folly or East Cowes marina -

and it's good seamanship to go to windward first, so it's easier on the return journey.

If it really blows a hoolie on the Sunday of a trip I'd stay put or go into Portsmouth - I once met an American singlehander in Braye, Alderney ( a place which scares me ) - on finding we were from Chichester he exclaimed " that's the roughest place I've ever been, don't people get killed there ?! "

Answer, yes but not often - avoid if there's an ebb against a strong F6+ wind with a southerly component.