French Lifeboats

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mickp

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Beware if rescued by the French Lifeboats you will be charged 275 Euros per Hour and they do not take credit cards.

Do we have a reciprical agreement ?

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I think you need to expand on this statement.

There is no charge for saving lives.
There is a charge for boat salving - which I am sure your insurance would gladly pay.

John

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Re: RNLI will have to follow

??
French do not charge to save lives - only property and what is wrong with that - its salvage pure and simple. Economics will either force the RNLI down the same route or they will end up with one AW boat for each Coastguard area supported by inshore RIBS. eg For Solent there would be one AW at Bembridge and all the others downgraded to large RIBS

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Facts?

How do you support that statement? It's my understanding that the RNLI are the wealthiest charity in the country.

I'm sure that if they started charging much of their support would drop away.

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I expect this charge is the reason that in a distress situation off Cap de la Hague 4 weeks ago, the single handed Alderney motor boater stated to CROSS Joburg that his sinking boat was about to be a loss and he didn't want the Lifeboat.

It was quite an interesting incident, commencing with a weak MAYDAY to Alderney radio, who obviously knew the casualty on first name terms. Alderney passed the distress situation handling to CROSS Joburg, who requested all vessels in the area to proceed to the casualty. Although 4 miles away I disrupted my voyage towards St Peter Port and headed flat out towards the casualty. However, I was more than a little disgusted to pass an Alderney fishing boat which had not responded and then to have 2 high speed motor yachts and 2 motoring sailing yachts (all closer to the casualty) cross my bow continuing towards Guernsey.

First on the scene was a yacht which appeared to be heading to Alderney from Cherbourg, which took the single hander onboard and his waterlogged craft in tow. However, in spite of the casualty refusing lifeboat assistance from the French, the Goury Lifeboat was launched, caught up with casualty under tow and took over the tow to Alderney.

In view of sighting 5 craft not respond to CROSS Joburg's "all vessels proceed" instruction, I was very pleased to see that the Lifeboat had been launched as it seemed the casualty was lucky to have picked up by the west bound yacht. Also his boat was successfully taken to Braye by the Lifeboat instead of possibly endagering the the original smallish towing yacht. Whether the casualty wanted the lifeboat (and the payment for same) or not, I expect he was very happy with the outcome.

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Re: RNLI will have to follow

The RNLI has repeatedly told me that they are absolutely against charging for their services for two reasons. 1) It is fundamentally wrong to put a price on saving life, and it is almost impossible to separate out the saving of live and property in a rescue situation; and 2) The RNLI depends heavily in its fund raising on the fact that it is independent, unsupported by public funds and doesn't charge for its services.

Having said all that, Andrew Freemantle did say that he could envisage circumstances in which repeated incompetence or stupidity by a skipper, which had put a lifeboat crew in danger, might inspire a local crew to put in a salvage claim. This would be entirely a matter for the crew and not the Institute as a whole

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French Lifeboats - Expansion

Whilst motoring up Seinne towards Honfluer i encountered engine problem ( Later found water separator completely clogged (( New Tank and Pipes - Dirty Fuel )) am investigating dealer - another story )
Anyway as going with strong tide was concerned at turning yacht across current into Honfluer lock, so radioed Honfluer lock for assistance to get into lock.
Response was they sent the Honfluer lifeboat which towed me in at a charge of £275 Euros ( Min hourly charge ) Did not consider it safe to sail into the lock having mored in sideways last year to counter the current. Difficult to anchor without hindering the gas tankers etc that use the narrow channel.
I have yet to contact my insurance but this is about £200 and my excess is £150 so if excess applies is it worth claiming ?

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Re: RNLI will have to follow

Interesting view from the RNLI given that both the hospitals and fire service now charge if you have a road accident.

I suspect that the RNLI approach reflects their ease of collecting funds - they certainly give the impression of having a lot of money! And perhaps they are also nervous of their crews wanting paying if they did ask for salvage.



<hr width=100% size=1>this post is a personal opinion, and you should not base your actions on it.
 
The RNLI estimates their average launch cost at £5.8k (£2.2k for an inshore boat). Excluding depreciation allocation.

A comparaison yields some interesting facts RNLI annual operating and boat replacement costs : £ 119 million, SNSM £ 9 million. Permanent employees RNLI 1105 (of which 26 get paid over £50k) SNSM 40 (including maintenance centre staff at St Malo : 1200 volunteer admin people). RNLI resreves £472million SNSM ?? 45% funded by donations from the public €5.3 million.

RNLI stations 225 SNSM 232 of which 58 are seasonal.
RNLI launches approx 8000 for 8000 persons assisted. SNSM approx 6000 for 13000.

Makes a contribution good value n'est-ce pas?

John

Sources : respective official web sites


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Re: French Lifeboats - Expansion

They have a sliding scale from €90 (fixed rate for wind-surfer) to €395/hr for an AW boat. This represents only costs directly related to the launch (fuel etc).

Their latest AW boats are superb but I bet they are only a fraction of the cost of a Severn or an Arun class boat.

John

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Is it not the case that a charity is unable to make a fixed charge for any services in the UK, they can only suggest a range of donations? If that was the case the RNLI would have to have a devolved commercial arm and a new range of 'tugboats'. I am trustee of a charity and we currently only produce guidelines on appropriate donations for any training that we undertake.

<hr width=100% size=1>...If you can find the simple solution to a complex problem, you've got it wrong!.........
 
Let's not forget the independant boats in the UK. There's lots of them, all responsible for their own funding. The RNLI breakdown does not give an accurate indication of what the total lifeboat cost for the UK is.

On the subject of charging. There are thankfully very few deliberate hoax calls but there are plenty of incidences where a lifeboat is called out for things like a tow home. These aren't "immediate life at risk" situations. Charging would certainly reduce the number of such cases. BUT we all know how easy it is for a problem to degenerate into a really serious situation. If there's any delay in calling for help we could easily see an increase in more serious incidents.

In my opinion, the emergency services should not charge - but if you do get a boat called out then make a whopping big donation & don't assume the boat is RNLI.

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Having "called" a boat out to attend a yacht that I did not feel competent to get a line across to (fair swell running and he was single handed, and I'm a bit of a wimp anyway), we made sure that we upped our Offshore contribution as soon as we got home. We also received a very nice thank you and bottle of wine from the yachtsman concerned.

<hr width=100% size=1>Think I might draw some little rabbits on my head, from a distance they might be mistaken for hairs.
 
Re: RNLI will have to follow

"And perhaps they are also nervous of their crews wanting paying if they did ask for salvage."....being a past RNLI 2nd Coxwain the crews do indeed recieve a payment for any service they attend to. As for salvage in my day the RNLI's policy was never to charge salvage but indeed if a certain crew felt that they would like to make a salvage claim they could but it was understood that the RNLI would then charge that crew for the use of the RNLI's property i.e. the lifeboat and its equipment. To my knowledge this never happened and you gained more satisfaction from the fact you had been able to help someone in distress!!!


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Re: RNLI will have to follow

It's not unknown for an RNLI lifeboat to make a salvage claim. A Falmouth CG once told me how astonished he was when he overhead the coxwain of a local lifeboat agreeing "Lloyds Open Form" before towing a yacht. The yacht skipper had called a Mayday because the propellor was fouled even though the weather was good and the yacht was able to sail. This happened in about 1986.

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I got into trouble off St Vaast last year. I was with relatively inexperienced crew, not the most experienced skipper myself, on a borrowed boat, and they towed me in. I was bloody grateful. I would have paid 3000 euro!! instead it cost 300.
It was WORTH EVERY CENT when judged against the possible alternative of being blown onto the shore.
We in the UK are extremely lucky to have the RNLI, and how they do what they do on charitable income is fantastic. The fact is however we are spoilt rotten and, typically, expect everyone else to follow our lead.
I would like to know how many of you are actually Offshore Members and showing your gratitude for what they do.

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Re: RNLI will have to follow

A bit jaundiced, don't you think ? We, fortunately, haven't had to call them yet but have seen them turn out selflessly for a whole lot of plonkers. I (being grumpy) might have lynched the culprits - they seem to have an endless supply of patience.

<hr width=100% size=1>a pragmatist is an optimist with a boat in the UK
 
Well actually if you treat these figures in normal ROI terms you should be boosting the number of launches to reduce cost per launch ???!!!

<hr width=100% size=1>a pragmatist is an optimist with a boat in the UK
 
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