French Douane

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Reminded by the Belgium boarding post.

Just a reminder that the French Douane do board UK registered boats especially IMHO around the CI region /range.

A friend got boarded coming out of Cherbourg last bank holiday weekend. All the papers were in order so OK and all very polite.

Red diesel is not a problem except in cans for possible resale (like Polish lorry drivers do in Slough!!)

There have been a number of threads regarding the legality of the French imposing on the spot fines on UK boats for not having the original certificate of registration but I watched one skipper being marched off to the cash machine in Carteret (sorry not marched off they gave him a lift in their car!) to pay a fine and I have a copy of the fine imposed on another UK boat that I berthed alongside in Paimpol.

Hence it does happen and unless you fancy your chances of an appeal in the French legal system its easier to pay. I have never been boarded in France in the months that I have spent sailing French waters.

Last point the boat in Paimpol got two fines, one for not having the original ships papers and the second for having 2 (obviously new) fold up bikes bought in Guernsey. The Douane were polite but pointed out that VAT is due on the first EU port entered. They did have the VAT receipt for the purchase of their new boat. So if you have any large value new items on board its good to be able to prove VAT paid. Not sure whether the Douane would have pursued the matter if the couple had insisted the bikes were bought in the UK.
 
Been boarded by douane, gendamerie and indeed the local plod. The French being better organised than we are have a computer system at every marina that allows them to report the arrival of foreign boats direct to the authorities.

Incidentally if you are boarded by them and cleared ask for a piece of paper to confirm it. There is a name for the paper but I have forgotten. Anyway the paper is useful if/when the next lot arrive.

Lastly when I was struggling a couple of boats ago with vat papers and talking to the vat man, I commented that of course we didnt need vat documentation in the UK and was told in no uncertain that I was wrong. The vat man was insistent that we should keep vat receipts for everything of value ( car, bike, even PC) because we could in theory be required to prove than anything we owned was vat paid. Highly unlikely to happen in normal life but if you get caught doing something you shouldnt and are a bit choppsy with them - well you never know.
 
birdseye said:
The vat man was insistent that we should keep vat receipts for everything of value ( car, bike, even PC) because we could in theory be required to prove than anything we owned was vat paid.
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Seems rather odd, since it's not my responsibility to pay it.

What if the shopkeeper is fiddling his accounts and not passing on the VAT for what I buy? Then the thing is not VAT-paid, but I would have no way of knowing.

Pete
 
prv said:
What if the shopkeeper is fiddling his accounts and not passing on the VAT for what I buy? Then the thing is not VAT-paid, but I would have no way of knowing.

Pete
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You do pay VAT sometimes its included in the total price othertimes is shown separately on the receipt. Look at your petrol/diesel receipt.

Irrelevant - you have a receipt showing VAT paid thats all that they want to see - the obvious. VAT fraud by others is investigated separately.

I have a receipt for my boat with the VAT paid. The fact that I later claimed the VAT back as a charter boat is irrelevant until I sell it then its in both my and the buyers interests to ensure the correct VAT is then paid. Bit similar to ensuring a car is free of HP before you buy it.
 
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birdseye said:
Incidentally if you are boarded by them and cleared ask for a piece of paper to confirm it. There is a name for the paper but I have forgotten. Anyway the paper is useful if/when the next lot arrive.
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We've often been boarde in S. Brittany - either in marinas or by RIB and they've always been very efficient and polite - and they have always provided the piece of paper. A couple of years ago we were boarded 20nm off the coast (which they're entitled to do) but this crew refused to issue a certificate of boarding or even to sign the log book.
 
birdseye said:
Been boarded by douane, gendamerie and indeed the local plod. The French being better organised than we are have a computer system at every marina that allows them to report the arrival of foreign boats direct to the authorities.

Incidentally if you are boarded by them and cleared ask for a piece of paper to confirm it. There is a name for the paper but I have forgotten. (récépissé de contrôle) Anyway the paper is useful if/when the next lot arrive.

Lastly when I was struggling a couple of boats ago with vat papers and talking to the vat man, I commented that of course we didnt need vat documentation in the UK and was told in no uncertain that I was wrong. The vat man was insistent that we should keep vat receipts for everything of value ( car, bike, even PC) because we could in theory be required to prove than anything we owned was vat paid. Highly unlikely to happen in normal life but if you get caught doing something you shouldnt and are a bit choppsy with them - well you never know.
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.
 
Goldie said:
We've often been boarde in S. Brittany - either in marinas or by RIB and they've always been very efficient and polite - and they have always provided the piece of paper. A couple of years ago we were boarded 20nm off the coast (which they're entitled to do)....
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Only if you are sailing out of French waters. There is also the possibiulity of doing so on the high seas for a very limited number of motives.
 
prv said:
Seems rather odd, since it's not my responsibility to pay it.
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Yup. AFAIK the VAT Myth has been long since debunked for all the obvious and often repeated reasons. One good thread here, but there have been others. (JFM's posts are the ones to look for):
http://www.ybw.com/forums/showthread.php?181086-VAT

As for TOCWUTPAORDIF. To date I've seen two on the spot fine docs. Copies below in case anyone wants to note the details and do their own research. (MCA legal line is here: 023 8032 9342)

Docs are here:
http://i58.tinypic.com/14ybuvp.jpg

and here:
http://i59.tinypic.com/25jd1mp.png
 
Out of interest the boat owner that I met in paimpol that had been fined for bicycle VAT and no original registration document bought his boat VAT free in CI. Sailed boat (it was a large motor boat) to UK and went to UK Customs to pay the VAT. Don't ask me why as we didn't go there!! He remarked that UK customs had no idea of the procedure for collecting the VAT and he was pushed from one office to another before being able to pay it and get the receipt. He took that to show that few buy boats abroad and pay VAT in UK or few doing the honest bit!
 
I got boarded by Dutch Customs recently in Oost Vlieland, and they wanted to see proof of VAT payment. I didn't have it. They got very shirty, but I gather there's nothing they can do: it's up to the UK authorities.
 
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