Daydream believer
Well-Known Member
It was reported in the yachting press years ago.
French Boats
- Thread starter Wansworth
- Start date
LittleSister
Well-Known Member
Fr J Hackett
Well-Known Member
I think it's the larger shipyards that have government interest not the recreation / sport boat builders.
capnsensible
Well-Known Member
Yeah, there is an entry about Jenneau take overs through the years but nothing about subsidies.
Frogmogman
Well-Known Member
I don’t think it’s fair to characterize Groupe Beneteau as a business that has only succeeded due to the largesse of the French State.
The only instance that springs to my mind is when Beneteau bought Jeanneau /Lagoon out of bankruptcy in 1995, they received €384000 in state aid, which was subsequently ruled to be illegal, and groupe Beneteau were obliged to pay it back in 2019. Pretty small potatoes in the overall scheme of things. As a French taxpayer, was I bothered ?
No.
Personally, I’m full of admiration for the way Beneteau has been run. They have succeeded in a difficult market, building boats that customers actually want to buy, in a country where manufacturing is notoriously difficult because of the labour market . They have saved numerous other French boat building companies over the years; CNB, Jeanneau/Lagoon, Wauquiez, etc. CNB and Wauquiez have since been successfully sold on.
In the case of Jeanneau, adding Lagoon to their portfolio was clearly strategically desirable, in view of the business they do with Moorings and Sunsail. More recently, their purchase of the Slovenian Seascape yachts was another strategic acquisition, giving them a toehold back in the small sports yacht market, freshening up the First brand.
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capnsensible
Well-Known Member
Thanks for that explanation.
Frogmogman
Well-Known Member
Similar numbers produced to the Contessa 32.Couldn't been that 'mould-breaking' given the numbers they managed to churn out.
Are you going to cast doubt on the legendary status of David Sadler’s masterpiece, by dint of production numbers ?
If you go down that road, you risk being run out of town by angry villagers brandishing blazing torches.,
Daydream believer
Well-Known Member
Actually my post #18 was a bit misleading. What the French did in 1991/93 was to give substantial tax breaks to the yachting manufacturers ( & possibly other industries, but certainly biased to marine) in a time of serious economic problems for the industry. That enabled them to survive a difficult period & get round state subsidy rules that may/may not have been in force at the time.
Fr J Hackett
Well-Known Member
This will give you an idea of how Beneteau is structured with the family still owning over half the share capital.
BÉNÉTEAU : Shareholders Board Members Managers and Company Profile | FR0000035164 | MarketScreener
BÉNÉTEAU : Shareholders Board Members Managers and Company Profile | FR0000035164 | MarketScreener
anoccasionalyachtsman
Well-Known Member
I'm fairly sure that during the late 70s and 80s the French received interest free financing for 'stock' boats that allowed them to run much smoother production line.
Frogmogman
Well-Known Member
Heaven forfend.
A government actually trying to help businesses in its own country. I won’t say any more, for fear of being accused of being political……
LittleSister
Well-Known Member
No, just joking about the idea that the moulds kept breaking, interrupting manufacture.
Also, I know that Jeremy Rogers was never at risk of being run out of town by angry villagers. Having lived in the Lymington area, I know that the vast bulk of the population is too elderly and infirm to throw their copy of Radio Times at the TV, let alone go out rampaging.
Beelzebub
Well-Known Member
I seem to recall that in the late seventies, Beneteau were going through a bit of a sticky patch. I heard that they proposed that the French government issue a loan equivalent to the amount of unemployment benefit liable to be paid if it shut its doors, for a finite period until they got themselves on an even keel again.
A little different to the "No lame ducks" mantra being spouted by Thatcher at about the same time.
A little different to the "No lame ducks" mantra being spouted by Thatcher at about the same time.
Wansworth
Well-Known Member
I believe a woman was at the helm,the daughter?
Daydream believer
Well-Known Member
On the contrary. I would suggest that state aid probably made survival possible. Without it we may well not be looking at the company we see today. . French labour force may have been considered differently in France than the UK thus affecting govt attitudes to companies in difficulty.
That does not mean that management was lacking because conditions may have been really bad at the time . For management to be able to actually get that aid suggests a certain degree of financial skills.
Beelzebub
Well-Known Member
Annette Roux, at least back in the eighties. She lent us a First Class 8 to take part in the 1987 FC8 Nations Cup. She was very keen to have British representaion in the event.
She showed us around one of the production lines and we remarked upon the fact that all the laminators were female. "Men are too generous", she said. "We design our boats with strict lamination guidelines and women are far stingier than men when it comes to laying up a hull".
Skylark
Well-Known Member
In 2014, to commemorate 130 years, Beneteau produced a high quality, 220 page special edition of their magazine. It's written in French and English and charts their full history and development and includes many lovely images, in colour and in monochrome. It's an interesting read.
Of course, the undisputed pinnacle of their range remains the Oceanis 41
Of course, the undisputed pinnacle of their range remains the Oceanis 41
Wansworth
Well-Known Member
I recall back in the 1960/70s they produced all manner of interesting small grp boats some based on traditional French fishing craft
Supertramp
Well-Known Member
Well put.
One of the key differences is the way they developed and grew their business versus other manufacturers. In simple terms the choice was volume (with mass production) or going upmarket where cost pressures are less.
I spent many months 20 years ago doing detailed cost comparisons between French, British and German factories (not boats). We (British) could not get to French costs for many reasons but I remember well the cheapness of their energy (nuclear), the different way they accounted for employee insurance and tax costs and lower business rates and taxes. You could be more efficient but end up more expensive. The Germans however were simply more efficient.
eddystone
Well-Known Member
Interesting we tend to view size based on number of hulls produced. Wonder what the combined annual revenue of Oyster, Princess and Sunseeker is compared to Groupe Beneteau or Hanse/Bavaria for that matter given gulf in average value per unit. Of course UK yards wiped out in mid market but some successes stories in dinghy market such as Ovington and RS sailing.
Stemar
Well-Known Member
That's sexist, that is. Off with her head!
I didn't say she was wrong, I said she was sexist