Freedom Yacht anyone

[Freespirit1980]

The carbon masts on the Fairways built Freedoms supplied by TPI were black If that helps the memory.

 

[penfold]

Has anyone ever built freedom-rigged cats? A rig that depowers itself in gusts like that would seem like a good match for a multihull.

 

[Signed Out]

Team Phillips.

Out of YBW retirement to enquire what happened to the 70?

 

[Freespirit1980]

A trimaran like the Neel range would be more suitable for an unstayed rig with its central hull so the masts can be stepped to the bottom of the hull.

 

[Freespirit1980]

The last I heard of the Freedom 70 was in San Diego but that was some time ago

 

[Zarro]

To Down West from Further Down West

I vaguely remember the Frenchman, he was there every time I sailed and was I think a co-owner of the boat or was interested in a half share because Hems asked me if I wanted a half share. His health problem made it a bit hard for him, although such an easy boat to sail.

Rob

 

[Giblets]

Unless someone has actually sailed a Freedom, I would suggest politely that they are not in a position to comment on how these unstayed cat ketch or cat schooner or single mast yachts perform. I have sailed Freedom 40s (aft and centre cockpit versions), Freedom 35 (also called 33), Freedom 28, Freedom 38, Freedom 45 and the one and only Freedom 70 with three masts. I was CEO of Fairways, the company that held the licence to build Freedoms outside North America. TP build Freedoms in the US. After leaving Fairways, I owned a Freedom 35 and a Freedom 38.

So how do they sail? We need to divide them into two or three sections. The original Freedoms had wrap around sails and wishbone booms. Those models were the 40, 44, 35, 28 and 70. The very early ones had aluminium lamp poles as masts but Fairways onLy built with carbon fibre masts that were much lighter than aluminium. Fairways build about 86 Freedoms. The wrap around sails could be shaped like the aero foil section of an aircraft wing with the outhaul, thus being much more efficient than conventional main sails running on a track up the back of a stayed mast. We tested them as over 90% efficient compared to 60%. Garry Hoyt astounded Antigua race week with the original centre cockpit Freedom 40 sweeping to victory. John Oakley was given a Freedom 35 to race in the Round the Island (of Wight) Race and the Solent series. He won them all apart from one when he retired with a stone jamming his centre plate. The Round the Island Race had some 3,000 participants. The highly rated OOD 34s class (Jeremy Rodgers of Contessa 32 fame) started half an hour earlier and the Freedom 35 overtook all of them. For the record, I renumbered the 33 when we launched the model in Europe as the 35 to include the small bowsprit.

I also persuaded Rob and Naomi James to do the ocean races for Freedom. Our plan was to win the Whitbread Round the World Race. Rob had sailed GB II to victory in the previous Whitbread and won the Two Star Transatlantic Race and the Round Britain & Ireland Race with Chay Blyth. After her solo around the World, Dame Naomi was a far better known figure to the general public than Rob and they came to see a Freedom 40 after she had opened a supermarket. She took one look and was reluctant to try a sail but Rob was intrigued. They came a few days later, a lovely sunny day with 15-20 knots of wind. As we motored to the entrance of the Hamble River, the latest 42 ft Swan designed by Ron Holland came out of Hamble Point marina on a demo sale. Rob rubbed his hands with glee as we could measure the Freedom 40 against the Swan. I had to restrain Rob from hoisting the Freedom’s sails as the Swan did. After giving the Swan a five minute start, I told him to hoist away. The winch was only need to lift the wishbone booms because sails are pulled up by hand easily. The Freedom 40 took off after the Swan reaching at over 10 knots and passed the Swan before sailing around and repeating passing this time on the dirty wind side. Rob and Naomi were bold over. I told them that I wanted Rob to race a Freedom in the Whitbread and we would build a 62 ft to be called the Freedom 70 with three identical masts. We went back to our Port Hamble yard to look at the drawings.

The objective of sailing in the Whitbread was to win the race as Nautor had done to boost Swan as a brand with a 65 ft Swan. Winning the Whitbread would have put Freedoms on the map globally. We also agreed that Naomi and Laurel Holland would race the Freedom 70 in the two handed transatlantic race before the Whitbread. We raced the Freedom 70 for the first time in the Southampton to Cherbourg race across the Channel against some Admiral Cups competitors. The wind was light until the needles when a Force 7 westerly propelled the 70 at 17-19 knots to Cherbourg winning by over 5 hours on actual time. The fear of the speed of Freedoms had led to s handicap that Ron calculated would need a mast 230 ft high to carry that sail area on a conventional Bermudan rigged boat.

After the two handed transatlantic race (Naomi had a medical problem and was replaced by John Oakley), Rob with his Whitbread crew raced Flyer from Newport to Lands End beating Flyer by four days crossing in 13 days. Due to the demise of Fairways when the Shobokshi Group failed to the agreed funding, the 70 never went in the Whitbread won easily by Flyer. Rob and our Freedom crew are all adamant that the 70 would have won the Whitbread.

Gary decided to make the second generation of Freedoms more conventional with single masts and vanged jib foresail with a fully battened maim sail on a track up the unstayed mast. The 45 and 38 went to windward better but had lost th off wind performance of the wrap around sail. The Freedom 39 Pilothouse schooner designed by Ron Holland was the second generation that we at Fairways had planned with input from Rob, John and me. It was to have the wrap around sail but Garry preferred the fully battened main sail.

All Freedoms are easily sailed by a small crew irrespective of rig.

Chris Samuelson
Ex CEO Fairways Marine

A fascinating narrative. Many thanks from one who has a family connection to Kriter Lady II.

 

[C08]

I used to lust after a Freedom 35 called "Life O'Reilly" that sailed around Wales in the 90's. It had a beautiful deep bottle green hull and looked gorgeous under full sail. I think it then became for sale at Pwllheli but unfortunately I did not have the funds at that time or I would have gone for it.

 

[tenacity]

Looking for comments/advice on doing a solo Atlantic Crossing in a Freedom 25. Understood that she is small and of the mind that it's the experience, preparedness and perseverance of the skipper that are most important. Former owner of an Allied Seawind II (32' ketch) but at 70 (not as nimble or strong as I once was). I'm looking to do the crossing in something smaller and perhaps more easily handled . The relatively large cockpit is a concern and weeding my way through the stayed/unstayed mast debate. This would be my first crossing, a bucket list item. Hoping for comments from Freespirit1980 and/or other owners of this model specifically.

 

[DownWest]

Welc

Looking for comments/advice on doing a solo Atlantic Crossing in a Freedom 25. Understood that she is small and of the mind that it's the experience, preparedness and perseverance of the skipper that are most important. Former owner of an Allied Seawind II (32' ketch) but at 70 (not as nimble or strong as I once was). I'm looking to do the crossing in something smaller and perhaps more easily handled . The relatively large cockpit is a concern and weeding my way through the stayed/unstayed mast debate. This would be my first crossing, a bucket list item. Hoping for comments from Freespirit1980 and/or other owners of this model specifically.

Welcome
Kudos.. Might be an idea to post on the Jester thread as well. They do this sort of thing in similar sized boats.
I read a piece on PBO a long time ago about a young couple who did it ,then onto Fiji in a 20ft ply Mousquetere . They filled in the washboards and put a watertight hatch in place of the sliding one. Young and nimble.... at about 21. No engine either.

 

[tenacity]

@DownWest, the Jester thread? Not sure if you are poking a little fun at me or not. It's a serious question I've asked.

 

[sarabande]

The Jester sailors have huge, unrivalled, experience in small boats and big oceans.


Well worth asking for advice over there.

 

[tenacity]

The Jester sailors have huge, unrivalled, experience in small boats and big oceans.


Well worth asking for advice over there.

Thank you, appreciate the clarification. Posted here specifically to get information on that specific boat, the Freedom 25, but also take a look at the Jester thread. Thanks to you @sarabande and @DownWest. Appreciate it.

 

[pwfl]

Unless someone has actually sailed a Freedom, I would suggest politely that they are not in a position to comment on how these unstayed cat ketch or cat schooner or single mast yachts perform. I have sailed Freedom 40s (aft and centre cockpit versions), Freedom 35 (also called 33), Freedom 28, Freedom 38, Freedom 45 and the one and only Freedom 70 with three masts. I was CEO of Fairways, the company that held the licence to build Freedoms outside North America. TP build Freedoms in the US. After leaving Fairways, I owned a Freedom 35 and a Freedom 38.

So how do they sail? We need to divide them into two or three sections. The original Freedoms had wrap around sails and wishbone booms. Those models were the 40, 44, 35, 28 and 70. The very early ones had aluminium lamp poles as masts but Fairways onLy built with carbon fibre masts that were much lighter than aluminium. Fairways build about 86 Freedoms. The wrap around sails could be shaped like the aero foil section of an aircraft wing with the outhaul, thus being much more efficient than conventional main sails running on a track up the back of a stayed mast. We tested them as over 90% efficient compared to 60%. Garry Hoyt astounded Antigua race week with the original centre cockpit Freedom 40 sweeping to victory. John Oakley was given a Freedom 35 to race in the Round the Island (of Wight) Race and the Solent series. He won them all apart from one when he retired with a stone jamming his centre plate. The Round the Island Race had some 3,000 participants. The highly rated OOD 34s class (Jeremy Rodgers of Contessa 32 fame) started half an hour earlier and the Freedom 35 overtook all of them. For the record, I renumbered the 33 when we launched the model in Europe as the 35 to include the small bowsprit.

I also persuaded Rob and Naomi James to do the ocean races for Freedom. Our plan was to win the Whitbread Round the World Race. Rob had sailed GB II to victory in the previous Whitbread and won the Two Star Transatlantic Race and the Round Britain & Ireland Race with Chay Blyth. After her solo around the World, Dame Naomi was a far better known figure to the general public than Rob and they came to see a Freedom 40 after she had opened a supermarket. She took one look and was reluctant to try a sail but Rob was intrigued. They came a few days later, a lovely sunny day with 15-20 knots of wind. As we motored to the entrance of the Hamble River, the latest 42 ft Swan designed by Ron Holland came out of Hamble Point marina on a demo sale. Rob rubbed his hands with glee as we could measure the Freedom 40 against the Swan. I had to restrain Rob from hoisting the Freedom’s sails as the Swan did. After giving the Swan a five minute start, I told him to hoist away. The winch was only need to lift the wishbone booms because sails are pulled up by hand easily. The Freedom 40 took off after the Swan reaching at over 10 knots and passed the Swan before sailing around and repeating passing this time on the dirty wind side. Rob and Naomi were bold over. I told them that I wanted Rob to race a Freedom in the Whitbread and we would build a 62 ft to be called the Freedom 70 with three identical masts. We went back to our Port Hamble yard to look at the drawings.

The objective of sailing in the Whitbread was to win the race as Nautor had done to boost Swan as a brand with a 65 ft Swan. Winning the Whitbread would have put Freedoms on the map globally. We also agreed that Naomi and Laurel Holland would race the Freedom 70 in the two handed transatlantic race before the Whitbread. We raced the Freedom 70 for the first time in the Southampton to Cherbourg race across the Channel against some Admiral Cups competitors. The wind was light until the needles when a Force 7 westerly propelled the 70 at 17-19 knots to Cherbourg winning by over 5 hours on actual time. The fear of the speed of Freedoms had led to s handicap that Ron calculated would need a mast 230 ft high to carry that sail area on a conventional Bermudan rigged boat.

After the two handed transatlantic race (Naomi had a medical problem and was replaced by John Oakley), Rob with his Whitbread crew raced Flyer from Newport to Lands End beating Flyer by four days crossing in 13 days. Due to the demise of Fairways when the Shobokshi Group failed to the agreed funding, the 70 never went in the Whitbread won easily by Flyer. Rob and our Freedom crew are all adamant that the 70 would have won the Whitbread.

Gary decided to make the second generation of Freedoms more conventional with single masts and vanged jib foresail with a fully battened maim sail on a track up the unstayed mast. The 45 and 38 went to windward better but had lost th off wind performance of the wrap around sail. The Freedom 39 Pilothouse schooner designed by Ron Holland was the second generation that we at Fairways had planned with input from Rob, John and me. It was to have the wrap around sail but Garry preferred the fully battened main sail.

All Freedoms are easily sailed by a small crew irrespective of rig.

Chris Samuelson
Ex CEO Fairways Marine

Hi Chris. Could you please tell me - the Freedoms you built were balsa cored - I'm looking at buying one & that seems to me to be something of a fundamental weakness.... for my own peace of mind, I would want to remove all deck hardware, make sure all through deck holes are epoxied to ensure any water that might get through cannot penetrate the balsa core, & reseal. which is obviously quite a big job. Unless, of course, you can tell me that they were already built with that in mind & that that will not be necessary! Thanks in advance for your advice

 

[Tranona]

Hi Chris. Could you please tell me - the Freedoms you built were balsa cored - I'm looking at buying one & that seems to me to be something of a fundamental weakness.... for my own peace of mind, I would want to remove all deck hardware, make sure all through deck holes are epoxied to ensure any water that might get through cannot penetrate the balsa core, & reseal. which is obviously quite a big job. Unless, of course, you can tell me that they were already built with that in mind & that that will not be necessary! Thanks in advance for your advice

Can't speak definitively but highly unlikely there were any fastenings through the cored areas of the deck when it was originally built. The deck moulding will not be fully cored, only in flat areas away from fittings and openings. Most likely where fittings were planned they would either have solid laminate or more commonly ply pads laid into the laminate. This is done for 2 reasons. First to ensure that there is no path for water to get into the core and second to avoid crushing the moulding and spreading the load from the fittings.

The issues with water getting the core arises usually from fittings added later where the hole has not been sealed properly or the outer skin failing for example cracking and letting water in. This often happens when the outer skin is under load such as around the mast step on deck stepped masts. I doubt you would experience any problems with a boat built by Fairways (or any other quality builder). One of the nice things about the Freedom is the absence of deck fittings - no tracks or chain plates and the solid layup of what is a heavily built boat. Cored decks were mainstream at the time (and still are) so surveyors are familiar with them and will be able to identify any underlying issues, which might also include delamination on large flat areas like side decks and foredecks. Easily identified by springing and soft patches - but again highly unlikely of a boat built like a Freedom.

 

[Birdseye]

Interesting design - unstayed rig. Does anyone have experience sailing one? Wonder why the design didn't catch on?

Sailed quite a bit on a Freedom 39 schooner bel;onging to a pal who has himself sailed it far further over many years. The rig is a funny issue - the carbon masts are tremendously strong. I once accidentally
e jibed the boat in 29 kn up the chuff and took out both booms ( sheet shackles hadnt been done up after layup) and there was no damage to the masts at all. Been up the masts many times even at sea and always felt safe. On the downside there are no shrouds to hang on to and you dont realise how often you use them until they arent there. Side decks arent that wide.

The boat itself is pretty heavy and doesnt sail like a First 40! But it makes good progress in all weathers. Internal accomodation isnt up to current standards but then neither was my Starlight 35, a boat I would take anywhere.

Good piece of kit if you like heavy boats. Incidentally they were made in the UK in limited numbers as well as the US.

 

[MisterBaxter]

I had a Freedom 21 for a while and that was great fun. Slightly stodgy upwind but from a close reach to a run it was brilliant. I mostly sailed single handed and the gunmount spinnaker could be used single handed up to about a force five. I saw 12 knots more than once.
The 'Freedom rig' was basically good and very easy but my actual boat had an alloy mast which was too heavy - the carbon fibre and e-glass ones are much better, I believe. It could also have benefitted from a slightly heavier keel.
I think the point of wire stays isn't to hold the mast up, it's to carry a staysail, which gives tremendous drive because of the clear luff. Historically unstayed masts were in wide use in the UK in the form of the dipping lug, which also has a clear luff but which needs a big crew; fishing boats had lots of hands on board so accepted the labour in exchange for the power and simplicity. If a 60' Zulu could carry an unstayed mast in 1890, I don't see why we should feel concerned about the strength of it in 2023. But I don't think the big spar on the luff of the Freedom rig will ever allow the upwind drive of a rig with a foresail (or indeed a dipping lug).