France post Brexit.

[Tranona]

Most of the dissatisfaction being built up with a combination of oft repeated lies and mistruths, with a hefty dose of xenophobia added just to spice up the pot,

Can't accept that at all. We all had access to the same "information" - but before the campaign began the average leave poll was 45%. So around 2 million people changed their minds (to get to 52%).

That says something about the quality of the remain campaign, which as we now know for certain was full of untruths.

The question was very clear and unambiguous. It was not asking to vote for any specific future scenario - just stay or leave. All the possible consequences were aired and people came to their own conclusion as a result. So all the current talk about they did not know what they were voting for, or even worse they failed to understand (as stated by one A Blair) is just arrogant nonsense.

 

[BigJoe]

Not one major argument was put forward that was positive about remaining.

Eh..... did the remain campaign not predict a weak GBP, higher prices in the shops, and the 250 million would not be spent on the NHS, etc............ etc............... etc.

Looks like most of what the RC said will come to pass, or has already started, and we haven't even started to process of leaving yet.

 

[Orange]

The bigger issue is whether we will have to abide by the same rules as everyone else in who are not in the E.U./E.E.A. The limit is 90 days every 180 days where you are allowed to stay in the Schngen zone on a tourist visa.

As we are likely to be cruising the Med for a year or two after Brexit, what would this mean in practise? Perhaps 3 months of cruising along Portugal, Spain & France & then 3 months in Gibraltar, Morocco er.. Gibraltar?

 

[Caladh]

Can't accept that at all. We all had access to the same "information" - but before the campaign began the average leave poll was 45%. So around 2 million people changed their minds (to get to 52%).

That says something about the quality of the remain campaign, which as we now know for certain was full of untruths.

The question was very clear and unambiguous. It was not asking to vote for any specific future scenario - just stay or leave. All the possible consequences were aired and people came to their own conclusion as a result. So all the current talk about they did not know what they were voting for, or even worse they failed to understand (as stated by one A Blair) is just arrogant nonsense.

Tranona - no one is going to change your mind or mine either. What bugs me is the fact that unelected PM May (a remainer before it all kicked off) says "The British people voted out - or it is the will of the people etc etc ad nauseum" Personally I didn't vote leave although I am of course a British citizen and don't like being included in something I didn't agree to. However I guess its what "our" democracy is about and yes I now just want to them get on with it so we all have a clearer picture of where we are heading. Please just stop ramming it down our throats all the time.

 

[macd]

As we are likely to be cruising the Med for a year or two after Brexit, what would this mean in practise? Perhaps 3 months of cruising along Portugal, Spain & France & then 3 months in Gibraltar, Morocco er.. Gibraltar?

That's what applies to many non-Europeans (although you can add Turkey, Montenegro, Albania and a few odds and sods to your list of bolt-holes).

Whether the same will apply to British citizens after Brexit remains to be seen, but it's perhaps prudent to plan with it as a worst case scenario.

There's also, of course, the separate but related issue of your vessel's post-Brexit VAT status within the EU, which is similarly unknown.

In your case, all that's assuming that officials in the Med have a clue about the status of the Isle of Man

 

[Tranona]

Tranona - no one is going to change your mind or mine either. What bugs me is the fact that unelected PM May (a remainer before it all kicked off) says "The British people voted out - or it is the will of the people etc etc ad nauseum" Personally I didn't vote leave although I am of course a British citizen and don't like being included in something I didn't agree to. However I guess its what "our" democracy is about and yes I now just want to them get on with it so we all have a clearer picture of where we are heading. Please just stop ramming it down our throats all the time.

Not ramming anything down anybody's throat. Just reminding ourselves that parliament set the the question and what would happen as a consequence. That was limited to invoking article 50 and negotiating a new relationship with the EU.

My big beef is the constant wail from remain that voters either did not understand what they were voting for, or were too stupid to make the right decision, or that the inevitable consequence would be a disaster. Why should one group of voters exhibit these characteristics and not the others? Plus, nobody ever making a positive case for staying in the EU, nor what the possible consequences of that would be - even though the known consequences even the government did not like.

As a matter of interest I was inclined toward remain (having spent half a lifetime involved in EU programmes, particularly Erasmus) - until the campaign started, so one of the 2 million who changed their minds based on what came out of the campaigns.

 

[Saguday]

And therein lies the problem. If two millions people switched sides based on what politicians (from either side) or biased partisan media were telling them rather than doing their own fact-checking and research then it's no wonder we're in the state we're in.

 

[Orange]

In your case, all that's assuming that officials in the Med have a clue about the status of the Isle of Man

Indeed. Our plan is to first buy the boat, move to Scotland, then spend 2 or 3 years in training. Then go to the Med. Hopefully Scotland won't be in a worse mess by then...

 

[maxi77]

Can't accept that at all. We all had access to the same "information" - but before the campaign began the average leave poll was 45%. So around 2 million people changed their minds (to get to 52%).

That says something about the quality of the remain campaign, which as we now know for certain was full of untruths.

The question was very clear and unambiguous. It was not asking to vote for any specific future scenario - just stay or leave. All the possible consequences were aired and people came to their own conclusion as a result. So all the current talk about they did not know what they were voting for, or even worse they failed to understand (as stated by one A Blair) is just arrogant nonsense.

As assorted brexit campaigners offered solutions ranging from the Norwegian solution to a very hard brexit how did any one know what would happen. Certainly puppet master in chief Davis would like us to believe they have a plan but I and many others remain to be convinced. I really do hope they do not only have a well thought out plan and have built up a team with the ability and skills to achieve it. From past experiences of dealing with EU government organisations they do plan and plan well, they know absolutely where they intend to end up and what path they will take to get there, my dealings with UK government departments have never shown the same pre planning.

You can of course believe what you want, that is your right, what I do find disturbing though is the desire of many in the brexit camp to stifle discussion and free thought on this matter including the intention of where ever possible excluding those elected to represent us from almost all of the process.

 

[maxi77]

And therein lies the problem. If two millions people switched sides based on what politicians (from either side) or biased partisan media were telling them rather than doing their own fact-checking and research then it's no wonder we're in the state we're in.

We always get what we vote for but not always what we thought we were voting for

 

[Tranona]

And therein lies the problem. If two millions people switched sides based on what politicians (from either side) or biased partisan media were telling them rather than doing their own fact-checking and research then it's no wonder we're in the state we're in.

Just go back to posts#6 and 8 and judge for yourself the sentiments expressed there.

 

[Tranona]

Eh..... did the remain campaign not predict a weak GBP, higher prices in the shops, and the 250 million would not be spent on the NHS, etc............ etc............... etc.

Looks like most of what the RC said will come to pass, or has already started, and we haven't even started to process of leaving yet.

Your argument is weakened by only using what you think supports it and ignoring all the rest - like the continuous growth in the economy, the regular raising of forecasts (such as by the IMF today), increased exports, increased manufacturing output, rising employment, falling unemployment, increased tax receipts, positive scores on all the major "confidence" indices.

Oh, and I forget, what happened to the promised Osborne immediate austerity budget? or indeed Osborne himself?

 

[Tranona]

As assorted brexit campaigners offered solutions ranging from the Norwegian solution to a very hard brexit how did any one know what would happen. Certainly puppet master in chief Davis would like us to believe they have a plan but I and many others remain to be convinced. I really do hope they do not only have a well thought out plan and have built up a team with the ability and skills to achieve it. From past experiences of dealing with EU government organisations they do plan and plan well, they know absolutely where they intend to end up and what path they will take to get there, my dealings with UK government departments have never shown the same pre planning.

You can of course believe what you want, that is your right, what I do find disturbing though is the desire of many in the brexit camp to stifle discussion and free thought on this matter including the intention of where ever possible excluding those elected to represent us from almost all of the process.

We were not asked to choose between different ways of dealing with the consequences of the vote simply because nobody knew. As I said the question was simple. Neither side offered a manifesto, nor a plan. The only thing clear about Leave was that leaving the EU would mean no longer being governed by their rules and no longer being a member of the single market. The only thing clear about remain was that we would continue to be subject to their rules and to be followers rather than leaders (as Cameron discovered in his attempt to instigate change).

Seems to me that there is a broad strategy in place, but how can you go any further when the other side refuses to talk to you? Why should you disclose what your objectives are before you need to?

As for stifling debate, don't see any sign of that although the "debate" from remain is mainly a rerun of the pre referendum campaign, so apart from providing an interesting commentary on some peoples' unwillingness to move with the times, does not generate much support.

Interesting times ahead. However going back to the original post, cannot see any of this affecting the reception Brits will get when they visit other countries. The bonds are too strong and will no doubt continue long after we have left the EU.

 

[Kelpie]

Leaving the single market was never a given.

 

[jordanbasset]

Leaving the single market was never a given.

Agree, Norway are not in the E.U. but still in the single market, indeed a Norway solution was even suggested by some on the Brexit campaign side. We voted to leaved the E.U., just that, or atleast that was on my ballot paper, nothing about the single market

 

[maxi77]

We were not asked to choose between different ways of dealing with the consequences of the vote simply because nobody knew. As I said the question was simple. Neither side offered a manifesto, nor a plan. The only thing clear about Leave was that leaving the EU would mean no longer being governed by their rules and no longer being a member of the single market. The only thing clear about remain was that we would continue to be subject to their rules and to be followers rather than leaders (as Cameron discovered in his attempt to instigate change).

Seems to me that there is a broad strategy in place, but how can you go any further when the other side refuses to talk to you? Why should you disclose what your objectives are before you need to?

As for stifling debate, don't see any sign of that although the "debate" from remain is mainly a rerun of the pre referendum campaign, so apart from providing an interesting commentary on some peoples' unwillingness to move with the times, does not generate much support.

Interesting times ahead. However going back to the original post, cannot see any of this affecting the reception Brits will get when they visit other countries. The bonds are too strong and will no doubt continue long after we have left the EU.

I would suggest that the present government attitude of holding EU citizens to ransom in the UK and trying to encourage then to leave before they are thrown out may end up being counter productive and could easily damage the bond you hope to continue. I am currently in the Algarve and the introduction of a 3 month tourist visa would really stunt the new signs of growth here. Nearly every business here depends on the snow birds and a 3 month visa would have real-impact on that trade.

 

[Garry & June 'Friendship']

What makes me laugh about Brexit and all the differing opinions as shown on these comments is the idea is that this is all only about the EU and the UK.... the original post was questioning the attitude of the French to Brits ...which also highlights this mistaken attitude...... it is not just the UK.....there are millions in differing nations throughout the whole EU who feel exactly as those who supported Brexit yet you never here much of this fact.... it annoys me when people make the assumption its only the UK which is anti EU, anti Brussells.....it is not !

 

[colind3782]

I too am concerned about the impact that Brexit will have on my life. I spend about 25% of my time on my boat in Spain which is on the SSR. I have friends and a social life there which I don't want to give up. Sailing to somewhere outside the EU periodically is a non-starter due to time and distance involved. I can't put it back on the Spanish register as I'm not resident. I do have an Irish passport but, at the moment, Ireland has no equivalent to the SSR.

I'm hoping that the Spanish authorities take a benign view to my predicament and others like me, especially as I spent some €25K there last year. I don't want to sound like a "remoaner" but Brexit is showing signs of screwing my life.

 

[RobbieW]

I too am concerned about the impact that Brexit will have on my life. I spend about 25% of my time on my boat in Spain which is on the SSR. I have friends and a social life there which I don't want to give up. Sailing to somewhere outside the EU periodically is a non-starter due to time and distance involved. I can't put it back on the Spanish register as I'm not resident. I do have an Irish passport but, at the moment, Ireland has no equivalent to the SSR.

I'm hoping that the Spanish authorities take a benign view to my predicament and others like me, especially as I spent some €25K there last year. I don't want to sound like a "remoaner" but Brexit is showing signs of screwing my life.

Theres a fair chance you could make 25% work within the existing Schengen visa rules, assuming you can use the 90 days in 180 cumulatively. What you'd need to do is some preplanning to avoid overstaying. F'rinstance if you went into Schengen on Jan 1st for 5 days you've then got 85 remaining days to use before June 30, what wouldnt work would be to enter Schengen mid April and leave mid July hoping to go back mid September. An alternative, which is what I suspect non EU nationals do today, is to get 6 months by nipping across to Morocco (etc) after 88 days to reset the clock (edit: though thinking about that I cant see how they start the 180 day clock at the right time).

 

[colind3782]

Theres a fair chance you could make 25% work within the existing Schengen visa rules, assuming you can use the 90 days in 180 cumulatively. What you'd need to do is some preplanning to avoid overstaying. F'rinstance if you went into Schengen on Jan 1st for 5 days you've then got 85 remaining days to use before June 30, what wouldnt work would be to enter Schengen mid April and leave mid July hoping to go back mid September. An alternative, which is what I suspect non EU nationals do today, is to get 6 months by nipping across to Morocco (etc) after 88 days to reset the clock (edit: though thinking about that I cant see how they start the 180 day clock at the right time).

My work schedule is slightly less than 8 weeks on and slightly more than two weeks off so I really don't have time to get to Morocco which is a lot more than "nipping across" distance from Empuriabrava. I'm not worried about me personally as, as I said, I also have an Irish passport. It's leaving the boat there that's the issue.