Fortress hook in an Emergency

[noelex]

I notice that on SV panope the Mantus M1 sits quite high on his list of anchors

The Mantus M1 is an excellent primary anchor.

It also can be unbolted with the parts storing almost flat. The very light weight of the Fortress makes this a better choice as a Kegde but the Mantus M1 is ideal if you want to carry a second primary anchor in case of loss.

 

[Neeves]

Historically holding capacity has always been the primary measure of excellence of an anchor, whether its the oft quoted YM/Sail anchor tests of 2006, Prof Knox' work reported in PBO, Peter Bruce, the US Navy tests, the testing completed. by the Classification Societies and the very detailed testing conducted by Voile et Voileurs

You make your own choice and pay your own money. The data is all out there.

But my money remans with holding capacity vs anchor weight/design. Given the weight of evidence and the number or reputable people who have used holding capacity as a measure I find that specific item of data - compelling

If you have the evidence convince me that holding capacity is an unnecessary unit of data and can be largely ignored. Prof Knox, Peter Bruce, SAIL, YM, PBO and the US Navy (not forgetting the Classification Societies) really had no idea.

At the end of the day its your choice.

Take care, stay safe

Jonathan

 

[Neeves]

Choosing an anchor seems to be a minefield what ever you choose always seems to have a downfall, In fact I did look at getting a 6kg Kobra however was put off by the collapsible shack which looked flimsy and unreliable.

I think carrying the addition of the 4kg Delta would see the fortress dismantled down into a bag to be kept into a small locker. Being on a small coastal cruiser (Drascombe Coaster) means storage for spare anchors and lots of warp is difficult but as I regularly anchor I might need to consider this.

I notice that on SV panope the Mantus M1 sits quite high on his list of anchors

There is no perfect anchor - they are all a compromise. You do your research, balance the information, maybe wonder why some of the information is missing..... and pay your money.

But you can define the hold of a Rocna, Spade, Delta, Fortress, you can rate the integrity of the information and data.........?

To recommend an anchor (or anchors) in the absence of hold data seems perverse and demands a certain arrogance as it suggests you know more than Mssrs Bruce, Knox etc etc. There are plenty of anchors with hold data. There is now plenty of choice, Rocna, Kobra, Supreme, Spade, Viking, Delta and design and price for every budget and there are enough of that choice on display on bow rollers in every marina and mooring field - there is no need to be different.

You are correct of the Kobra - our shank for our Kobra is welded - but people here who use them sing their praises - and I think it a good anchor.

If you go to the Fortress website they have, or used to have, a link to a couple of manufacturers of brackets to allow you to store a Fortress on a stanchion, transom etc etc. If you simply look at a Fortress you do not need to be very clever to devise a means to lash it somewhere (or make a bracket yourself). But having an anchor you cannot deploy quickly (if its dismantled) does mean that its not immediately available. Maybe you could keep it under the cabin sole. If you cut two pieces of stainless tube and thread them through the lifelines that would support the stock of a Fortress and you could simply lash the shank to an adjacent stanchion (free it with a knife). If you look at the RNLI Shannons - they secure the Spade on the foredeck with a bracket on the bow (and did the same with their Delta (on older boats). Danforth were often stored flush and flat on the foredeck with simply blocks.

Your Mantus is fine - treat it as if its a Delta of the same weight and do not consider it as good as a Rocna of the same weight - and you are good to go. It might look like a Rocna - but it has half the hold. The Rocna is a modern ballasted anchor, like a Spade, Excel., Kobra. A Mantus is an unballasted anchor with its centre of effort in the wrong place. Other unballasted anchors Bugel, Fortress, Danforth, Knox, Fortress, SARCA, Brittany, Bruce have the crown at the heel (back of the fluke). In fact if you check a Bruce - the crown is placed behind the heel and protrudes aft - Mantus has its crown in the same location as a ballasted anchor (but no ballast) - hence the low hold - its simply badly designed (or if there is a reason - its never been divulged).

So consider the Mantus a complete contradiction in design to all, without exception, other unballasted anchors and wonder what the advantages are.

Take care stay safe

Jonathan





Jonathan

 

[Yachtingsouthwest]

There is no perfect anchor - they are all a compromise. You do your research, balance the information, maybe wonder why some of the information is missing..... and pay your money.

But you can define the hold of a Rocna, Spade, Delta, Fortress, you can rate the integrity of the information and data.........?

To recommend an anchor (or anchors) in the absence of hold data seems perverse and demands a certain arrogance as it suggests you know more than Mssrs Bruce, Knox etc etc. There are plenty of anchors with hold data. There is now plenty of choice, Rocna, Kobra, Supreme, Spade, Viking, Delta and design and price for every budget and there are enough of that choice on display on bow rollers in every marina and mooring field - there is no need to be different.

You are correct of the Kobra - our shank for our Kobra is welded - but people here who use them sing their praises - and I think it a good anchor.

If you go to the Fortress website they have, or used to have, a link to a couple of manufacturers of brackets to allow you to store a Fortress on a stanchion, transom etc etc. If you simply look at a Fortress you do not need to be very clever to devise a means to lash it somewhere (or make a bracket yourself). But having an anchor you cannot deploy quickly (if its dismantled) does mean that its not immediately available. Maybe you could keep it under the cabin sole. If you cut two pieces of stainless tube and thread them through the lifelines that would support the stock of a Fortress and you could simply lash the shank to an adjacent stanchion (free it with a knife). If you look at the RNLI Shannons - they secure the Spade on the foredeck with a bracket on the bow (and did the same with their Delta (on older boats). Danforth were often stored flush and flat on the foredeck with simply blocks.

Your Mantus is fine - treat it as if its a Delta of the same weight and do not consider it as good as a Rocna of the same weight - and you are good to go. It might look like a Rocna - but it has half the hold. The Rocna is a modern ballasted anchor, like a Spade, Excel., Kobra. A Mantus is an unballasted anchor with its centre of effort in the wrong place. Other unballasted anchors Bugel, Fortress, Danforth, Knox, Fortress, SARCA, Brittany, Bruce have the crown at the heel (back of the fluke). In fact if you check a Bruce - the crown is placed behind the heel and protrudes aft - Mantus has its crown in the same location as a ballasted anchor (but no ballast) - hence the low hold - its simply badly designed (or if there is a reason - its never been divulged).

So consider the Mantus a complete contradiction in design to all, without exception, other unballasted anchors and wonder what the advantages are.

Take care stay safe

Jonathan





Jonathan

Thank you for your reply Jonathan

I often flick through the forums and often take great interest in your posts so thank you.

I am almost tempted to try and sell the mantus again because I have been struggling to find a position to stow it on the small foredeck where it isnt a tripping hazard with the large rollbar or catches the jib sheets. The delta stowed well as it did not have the ungainly rollbar

 

[boomerangben]

Thanks all for the replys so far.

My boat is probably quite different to what the majority of people sail being a Drascombe Coaster relatively small vessel, however I regularly anchor in various places and as the boat can take the ground often in places that require two anchors.

My ground tackle consists of
Bower Mantus 13lb, 10m 6mm chain and 50m 10mm 3 strand.

Fortress FX7 3m chain and then a long mooring line added when used.

I nearly lost the bower last season after it became snagged on a dumped steel cable, thinking after could I have carried on the adventure using the fortress as a primary.

We have a similar sized boat with an FX7 5m chain and 20m of nylon 3 strand. Held us firm in some grotty weather in the west coast of mull and canna over the years including a sustained F7 in shelter. Held like a bolt in the ground. Like all anchoring, pick your spot.

 

[Yachtingsouthwest]

We have a similar sized boat with an FX7 5m chain and 20m of nylon 3 strand. Held us firm in some grotty weather in the west coast of mull and canna over the years including a sustained F7 in shelter. Held like a bolt in the ground. Like all anchoring, pick your spot.

Sounds promising what boat do you have?

 

[Neeves]

Thank you for your reply Jonathan

I often flick through the forums and often take great interest in your posts so thank you.

I am almost tempted to try and sell the mantus again because I have been struggling to find a position to stow it on the small foredeck where it isnt a tripping hazard with the large rollbar or catches the jib sheets. The delta stowed well as it did not have the ungainly rollbar

If you had a Fortress, a toe rail and a central foredeck cleat. Lash the stock to the toe rail between 2 stanchions and lash the shackle end of the shank to a central foredeck horn cleat. Or lash to toe rail and lash shank to stanchion. I've seen them with the stock lying parallel to the deck and the shank lashed vertically to shrouds, or stock parallel to deck and shank lashed vertically to the mast. There are actually lots of options but it depends on your particular deck arrangement.

Though I like the idea of blocks on deck and lashing the Fortress flat with the deck I'm not keen on drilling holes through the deck for the blocks. I'd be reluctant to thus use blocks - but lashing to a toe rail is similar and does not demand holes in the deck.

To me the best arrangement is to lash vertically - and then its not a trip hazard. If you do lash a Fortresss vertically add something soft (flexible rubber) under the stock to protect the deck (we use old printers blanket - rubber coated canvas).

I confess we don't get many Drascombe Coasters here - I don't know her configuration. I'm making random guesses.

Keep looking on eBay - something will turn up. Keep the Mantus until you find a 'comfortable' replacement. Anchors don't go off - or not that quickly.

Jonathan

 

[AngusMcDoon]

Thanks Norman,

I'm guessing high windage and heavy displacement with the ability to deploy a riding sail and quell veering. As your cruising ground is the Western Islands - you might suffer stronger winds but you will derive shelter from any swell or chop.

Hardly excessive - except for the 10mm chain (which I would have opted for 8mm and a longer length - but then we have well in excess of 10m tides 'up north).

I recall you leave the yacht, sometimes for extended periods, and deploy a Bahamian moor - as you have nothing else this is presumably with the Fortress and Bruce (effectively relying on the Fortress under certain conditions as a primary or bower anchor (which like Vyv) answers the OP's question).

If only others provided this sort of detail of their ground tackle.

Jonathan

I sail in the same area as Norm and his storms on a 9.2m 2 ton trimaran. I use 5m chain, 50m warp and either a 9kg Knox or a 3.8kg Guardian G-16. The Knox is of course the best possible anchor for the area, being Scottish, and made of recycled girders. I've sat out many a Hebridean hoolie supping my Irn Bru with nary a worry about dragging.

 

[Neeves]

I sail in the same area as Norm and his storms on a 9.2m 2 ton trimaran. I use 5m chain, 50m warp and either a 9kg Knox or a 3.8kg Guardian G-16. The Knox is of course the best possible anchor for the area, being Scottish, and made of recycled girders. I've sat out many a Hebridean hoolie supping my Irn Bru with nary a worry about dragging.

Impossible

Irn Bru is made from recycled girders (or it was in my day) and there would be no availability of spare girders for something as trivial as an anchor. I suspect that your success is totally reliant on the satisfying effects of the beverage on your inner calm.

To support my statement that Irn Bru is made from girders I was going to quote my recollection of advertising on the buses roaming Glasgow's suburbs but thought this quote from Wiki was more reliable. There was never any suggestion that the girders were recycled - nor anything other than freshly made girders direct from Ravenscraig.


Irn-Bru's advertising slogans used to be 'Scotland's other National Drink', referring to whisky, and 'Made in Scotland from girders',


Take care, stay safe

Jonathan

 

[boomerangben]

Sounds promising what boat do you have?

Sorry for the delay, Bayraider Expedition