Foresail furling versus reefing

[johnchampion]

My Tamarisk 24 currently has roller reefing gear of sorts on both staysail and jib. I say "of sorts" as the jib is on a Plastimo 406 which is on its last legs and the staysail is on a Harken mini reefing system which has already lost its last legs.
I am therefor toying with the idea of using Wykham Martin gear on the jib and relacing the reefing gear on the staysail with another roller reefer (or maybe moving the Plastimo gear to the staysail and see if I can squeeze a bit more longevity from it). My reasoning is that for the staysail it will be more flexible than WM but for the jib a WM would enable me to run the bowsprit in and out when needed which I cannot do with a foil on the stay. I would need to have the jib fitted with a new luff wire for WM so I really have to decide which way to go and stick with whatever decision I make.
I don't really envisage that I would need to call on the jib semi furled as in heavy wind I could make do with the staysail anyway so my question of those who have used both is how have you found WM gear as opposed to reefing gear?

 

[jon]

I have the same decision to make on my self build Gaff Cutter, I plan to use Sailspar roller reefing on the staysail and Sailspar furling on the bowsprit jib traveller to allow for a lifting bowsprit and storm jib changes etc, but I am open to suggestions..........

 

[Santana379]

Nancy Blackett has WM gear for her jib, and a hanked on staysail.

I don't believe semi-furled is an option - its either in or out.

In Nancy's case, the bowsprit stays in place, and the WM gear comes in and out on a traveller (it hooks on to a ring around the bowsprit).

We always bring it in when we leave the boat, and stow the jib below. Its an easy/quick enough job, but I would not be happy with it being left unattended in serious winds.

We have had a problem in the past with an uneven roll, but I believe this was solved by freeing the swivel at the top.

Nancy is sailed by a variety of skippers, and I don't ever hear a bad word about the WM. Personally I think its great.

Not a very helpful post in terms of giving you the comparison you requested though.

Little Knot

 

[old_salt]

Have a look at this I posted some time back scroll down to the post by old_salt. I hope this helps in some way.
It shows a way of using a top WM and allows the sail to be reefed as well as furled.
Here.

 

[dur]

I have a WM on both jib and stayail on my Tamarisk 22 but have been considering a new staysail with a plastimo.
I have a No. 1 and No. 2 jib plus a large yankee affair. In F4-5 to windward I might aim to have the smaller jib, staysail and a couple of reefs in the main. If the wind increases a little I can put the third reef in the main but any more wind and I have to furl the stays'l. This then tends to take most of the drive out of the boat. What I am wondering is whether a stays'l on a plastimo can be furled enough to still be do some good in F6 while being a decent shape in lighter winds.

The jibs being on a WM on a traveller can be bought in to be changed though you can end up with a birds nest if (when) the coils of line fall off the WM.

Max

PS. Have you any pics of your Tam 24 you would like to share? I am hoping to get around to putting a few more pics on my website www.gaff-rig.co.uk

 

[johnchampion]

Old Salt ,
Thanks for the link, it's an interesting take on how to reef with WM but for me I think it would be far too much hassle if I can reef the staysail. It looks like a system with plenty waiting to go wrong!

 

[johnchampion]

Max
I had seen your site a couple of weeks ago.

My sail wardrobe is somewhat less extensive than yours, I have a jib, staysail main and topsail, which approximates pretty much to the original sail plan for the high gaff version from David Cannell.

Although not on the sail plan I have I gather from Arun/Rockall (Rockall made mine originally) that there were also designs for larger "racing" jibs and staysails.

Another of my reasons for considering WM is the ability to whack up a bigger jib when needed, I don't really go much on the idea of a balloon staysail, don't really know why but I just feel it might be difficult to set properly behind the main.

I'm pretty short on pictures but I'll send what I have to your site and try to get a few from people who have taken shots when I've been out. The problem with pics of course is that it's tricky to take them of your own boat when you're on it!

 

[dur]

Don't forget if you do convert an existing sail to rolling or furling you may well need to add a sacrificial UV strip as well as the wire.

There is a Solent based Tam 24 which sets a large lightweight genny. I think the trick is probably not to try and hang on to it for too long if the wind picks up - which is fine if you have an able crew.

I would like to know the characteristics of a good stays'l for a small cutter. My staysail appears to have too much belly in it which means that it is either sheeted in too hard and backwinds the main or it is too free and starts to flap. Playing with the sheeting position does not help.

 

[Porthandbuoy]

I am prepared to be corrected on this, but I think the staysail (aka inner foresail) should be cut rather flat with the emphasis on going to windward.

My reasoning is that you will furl away the jib first of all when the wind picks up, followed by a reef in the main. If the staysail is small, and cut flat, it shouldn't overpower you while helping you claw your way off that lee shore.

Just my thoughts.

 

[Mirelle]

I wonder if perhaps it is a little too large? The clew should only just come past the mast - if that far.

A baloon staysail will come much further back but that is set outside the shrouds and not carried to windward (well, I will set mine inside and go to windward with it but only up to F1.5!)

 

[dur]

I am thinking that flatish would be the way to go. Not because I furl the jib first - if I do that I get lots of weather helm - but because I have to bear off two or three degrees when setting the staysail compared with jib and main alone. Presumably flatter is better if using roller furling as well.

 

[sheeplove]

My vote is for a small harken furler if you want reliability.