Ford XLD 1800 diesel engine

[higler]

I did not mention that I have a Ford 416 diesel ex Fork lift truck with the equivalent of about 1200 hours. Fitted with new cambelt, idler gear and injection pump belt in 2007 and still lying idle.
This engine runs perfectly and is available for a nominal sum, ........if all else fails

Thanks for the offer, im trying to sort this first but will keep you in mind should I not succeed then I will be in touch. Regards Norman

 

[BlueSkyNick]

I did not mention that I have a Ford 416 diesel ex Fork lift truck with the equivalent of about 1200 hours. Fitted with new cambelt, idler gear and injection pump belt in 2007 and still lying idle.
This engine runs perfectly and is available for a nominal sum, ........if all else fails

erm ... I have a 418 for sale, too !

 

[Sandyman]

Gents I would like to thank you all for the input you have all put forward, its quite obvious that the most common reasons for this problem are not so on this occasion. I am now going to go direct to ford engine technical advisors and see what they come up with, as to do a rebuild on this engine could become rather expensive and maybe at the end have a negative outcome if this problem cant be diagnosed. Should I find out from Fords and be able to rebuild succesfully then I will post on here what the outcome was so that anyone else who may come up against this will benefit from what I may learn. Once again a big thank you all. Norman

Yes do let us know the outcome Norman. I'm really intrigued to know what the cause was.

You know what happens now don't you. Someone will come along & take a look and say have you tried the xxxxxxxx And you will say Bl00dy Nora why didn't I think of that

Good Luck

 

[Jcorstorphine]

Got to agree with Duncan

Haven't worked on one of these for years, but something about the fault niggled away. Have had a look at the workshop manual and refreshed my memory.

There is a non return valve on the breather system. It lives in the rocker cover. If it is clogged then it will pressurise the crankcase and dump the oil through your pump. Depending on the age of the engine the rocker cover may have a baffle plate which makes access to the valve a bit difficult (actually impossible unless you cut the baffle plate open). Used to have to do this quite often.

If the fault has suddenly appeared, which seems to be the case, then my money is on this being the problem.

I have 416 (Ford 1600D) engine in my boat which has suffered from just about every ailment known to man but not had this one. I had quite a bit of blow back through the rocker box oil filler but did not have a problem with the sump being emptied but then, I did not have a sump pump. I ended up rebuilding my entire engine including a rebore, new pistons etc.

Going back to your engine, my first thought was the exact same as Duncan’s as the 416 has a breather valve mounted on the side of the rocker cover (I know there are no rockers on an OHC engine but don’t know what else to call it)

This breather valve is the only exit for excessive gases on these engines that I can see. Looking at my Ford Technicians Product Training manual for the 1.8 this would seem to have the exact same plumbing as the 1.6 albeit with the breather in a different place. Are you 100% sure this item is working and relieving crankcase pressure.

My other thought would be the vacuum pump mounted at the rear end of the engine mentioned in the various postings. The 1.6 and 1.8 have the same vacuum pump. You will notice that there is a pipe from the vacuum pump going down into the sump via the dipstick tube which is the oil drain from the vacuum pump piston which itself, is driven from the camshaft. Is it possible that there is some problem with the vacuum pump internals and it is actually pressurising the sump. This is a “clutching at straws” solution because I would have thought that the actuall displacement of the vacuum pump working as a compressor would be easily vented through the breather.

I actually removed the vacuum pump on my engine by making a blanking plate and a drain line to the sump. I did however leave a shortened piston in place to prevent loss of oil pressure. I am sure the blanking plate is available from Lancing.

Out of interest, were you able to find a source of Torque to Yield bolts for the main, big end and flywheel bolts. I had a nightmare of a job finding the ones for the 416 engine as the following link will show.

http://www.ybw.com/forums/showthread.php?t=261622

I have also posted a link to all the other Ford XLD problems I have encountered. Might be of some interest.

http://www.ybw.com/forums/showthread.php?t=287373

Best of luck with your engine and let us know what you find.

 

[pappaecho]

I would do as John has done and removed the vaccum pump and fit the blanking plate which is sold by Lancing marine, as I posted earlier.
see what happens...........will only cost a new can of oil and the cost of a blanking plate.

( I am sure that the old Lancing marine instructions for marinising the 416 was to remove the vaccuum pulp and blank off)

 

[higler]

I have 416 (Ford 1600D) engine in my boat which has suffered from just about every ailment known to man but not had this one. I had quite a bit of blow back through the rocker box oil filler but did not have a problem with the sump being emptied but then, I did not have a sump pump. I ended up rebuilding my entire engine including a rebore, new pistons etc.

Going back to your engine, my first thought was the exact same as Duncan’s as the 416 has a breather valve mounted on the side of the rocker cover (I know there are no rockers on an OHC engine but don’t know what else to call it)

This breather valve is the only exit for excessive gases on these engines that I can see. Looking at my Ford Technicians Product Training manual for the 1.8 this would seem to have the exact same plumbing as the 1.6 albeit with the breather in a different place. Are you 100% sure this item is working and relieving crankcase pressure.

My other thought would be the vacuum pump mounted at the rear end of the engine mentioned in the various postings. The 1.6 and 1.8 have the same vacuum pump. You will notice that there is a pipe from the vacuum pump going down into the sump via the dipstick tube which is the oil drain from the vacuum pump piston which itself, is driven from the camshaft. Is it possible that there is some problem with the vacuum pump internals and it is actually pressurising the sump. This is a “clutching at straws” solution because I would have thought that the actuall displacement of the vacuum pump working as a compressor would be easily vented through the breather.

I actually removed the vacuum pump on my engine by making a blanking plate and a drain line to the sump. I did however leave a shortened piston in place to prevent loss of oil pressure. I am sure the blanking plate is available from Lancing.

Out of interest, were you able to find a source of Torque to Yield bolts for the main, big end and flywheel bolts. I had a nightmare of a job finding the ones for the 416 engine as the following link will show.

http://www.ybw.com/forums/showthread.php?t=261622

I have also posted a link to all the other Ford XLD problems I have encountered. Might be of some interest.

http://www.ybw.com/forums/showthread.php?t=287373

Best of luck with your engine and let us know what you find.

Well Ive blown through the rocker cover valve and its not restricted, so can assume its in order. The vacuum pump has a cover that has a pipe at the bottom which joins the breather pipe just above the sump, in fact the piston just lays in the hole doing nothing so all it does is drains any oil back into the sump, but I will be blanking the pipe as it cant affect anything, and I was told that it would have no bearing on the problem. Ive got some torque settings from a haynes manual for the fiesta up to 2002, but they are not just straight forward setting they are a mixture of nm and angle settings, they dont make life too easy. Thanks for the other info, Im starting to rebuild this one now and have been told to check everything as I go and can call a techy if I encounter anything unusual. I will post whatever I may find along the way it could be a one off but someone else may come up against it in the future. N

 

[higler]

I would do as John has done and removed the vaccum pump and fit the blanking plate which is sold by Lancing marine, as I posted earlier.
see what happens...........will only cost a new can of oil and the cost of a blanking plate.

( I am sure that the old Lancing marine instructions for marinising the 416 was to remove the vaccuum pulp and blank off)

Thanks I am intending to blank it--Its doing nothing anyway.

 

[Jcorstorphine]

Torque settings

Well Ive blown through the rocker cover valve and its not restricted, so can assume its in order. The vacuum pump has a cover that has a pipe at the bottom which joins the breather pipe just above the sump, in fact the piston just lays in the hole doing nothing so all it does is drains any oil back into the sump, but I will be blanking the pipe as it cant affect anything, and I was told that it would have no bearing on the problem. Ive got some torque settings from a haynes manual for the fiesta up to 2002, but they are not just straight forward setting they are a mixture of nm and angle settings, they dont make life too easy. Thanks for the other info, Im starting to rebuild this one now and have been told to check everything as I go and can call a techy if I encounter anything unusual. I will post whatever I may find along the way it could be a one off but someone else may come up against it in the future. N

Here are the settings from the correct manual for the 1.8 engine

Cylinder head
Stage 1 30 Nm
Stage 2 92 Nm
Stage 3 90 degrees but wait 2 mins before angle tightening

If the head bolts are M12 or Torx 170 head the instructions are far more complicated and involve unscrewing the each bolt a 180 degrees in turn, re- torrquing to 70 Nm and then a final angle tight of 120 degrees.

Main Bearing
Stage 1 27 Nm
Stage 2 75 degrees

Big End
Stage 1 30 Nm
Stage 2 60 degrees
Stage 3 20 degrees

Flywheel
Stage 1 20 Nm
Stage 2 45 degrees
Stage 3 45 degrees

I would not use any data for the 2002 Fiesta manual for an XLD engine, there are plenty of copies on Ebay. This one is about £2

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/haynes-ma...es_Manuals_Litterature_ET&hash=item43acba5b2a

And new head bolts (old type)

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Head-bolt...arts_Vehicles_CarParts_SM&hash=item414c428940

 

[higler]

Thanks for the data John I had already been on the e bay site and ordered a manual for the diesel engine, I had seen it previously and knew it would be the better bet. Bolts I am in the process of tracking so far im waiting for a quote for all I need, but the ones on E bay I spoke to the chap and he doesnt think they are correct but as he is very close to where I live he is also trying to get some priced up for me. Im really grateful for the details you have mailed me Thanks a lot. Regards Norman

 

[Jcorstorphine]

More on Bolts

Thanks for the data John I had already been on the e bay site and ordered a manual for the diesel engine, I had seen it previously and knew it would be the better bet. Bolts I am in the process of tracking so far im waiting for a quote for all I need, but the ones on E bay I spoke to the chap and he doesnt think they are correct but as he is very close to where I live he is also trying to get some priced up for me. Im really grateful for the details you have mailed me Thanks a lot. Regards Norman

Just one little bit more information.

Looked through all my notes and found the suppliers I used for Main and Flywheel bolts.

Foray group who will try and source bolts throughout Europe.

http://www.fordpartsuk.com

and

Burtons who do race engines but I got big end bolts from them. With Burtons, they do not get involved with Diesels but many of the bolts are the same so you need to ask for a specific bolt i.e. 2” x 3/8” UNF TTY. They also do ARP bolts which are expensive but might be a last resort

www.burtonpower.com

If you are talking to Foray guys, try and get the engine number and engine type. It will be either RTC, RTD, RTE, RTF, RTG OR RTH and the serial number.

You will find the numbers at the rear of the engine stamped onto the block just above the flywheel They may be under a layer of paint but it is worthwhile getting the numbers as the parts guys will want to know the car registration number (which is tricky) but the engine numbers will be the next best thing.

My engine was a complete mix of metric, UNF and UNC bolts so you might be advised to take one of each critical bolt to someone with thread gauges so you can be sure of what bolts to order.

Have fun, I didn't

 

[higler]

Just one little bit more information.

Looked through all my notes and found the suppliers I used for Main and Flywheel bolts.

Foray group who will try and source bolts throughout Europe.

http://www.fordpartsuk.com

and

Burtons who do race engines but I got big end bolts from them. With Burtons, they do not get involved with Diesels but many of the bolts are the same so you need to ask for a specific bolt i.e. 2” x 3/8” UNF TTY. They also do ARP bolts which are expensive but might be a last resort

www.burtonpower.com

If you are talking to Foray guys, try and get the engine number and engine type. It will be either RTC, RTD, RTE, RTF, RTG OR RTH and the serial number.

You will find the numbers at the rear of the engine stamped onto the block just above the flywheel They may be under a layer of paint but it is worthwhile getting the numbers as the parts guys will want to know the car registration number (which is tricky) but the engine numbers will be the next best thing.

My engine was a complete mix of metric, UNF and UNC bolts so you might be advised to take one of each critical bolt to someone with thread gauges so you can be sure of what bolts to order.

Have fun, I didn't

Ive got a quote from Forays already, theyve got what I need ? so will be phoning them tomorrow just to confirm they are what I need. Almost everything else is in place just wait for delivery. Just to confirm I spoke with Mike Bellamy at lancing marine about the vacuum pump and as I had already been told its not an issue, so thats not the cause. He wants photos of the engine block showing the vent pipes etc. I dont think he believes what im telling him, hes never had this come up before--hes not alone. N

 

[DownWest]

Good luck. I have an 1800TD and the Haines for Fiestas '95 to '97 (the engine was actually sold in '95). Rebuilt it completely and the info was OK. The torqueing of the bolts was straightforward. The 1600 engine is older and has different threads. I had no probs finding the bolts in '2003', but might be more tricky now?
Bust the crank in 2007 (oil pump wear)and bought an Escort unit for £550. Had to change it from East/West to North/ South. But still goes like a train.
Really interested about the resolution of your oil prob. I have nothing to add, as all my ideas are already up here.
Only massive presurisation of the crankcase would blow out the oil, which assumes the breather is blocked. The dipstick would only vent gas/air as it is over the oil level, whereas the sump pump picks up from the bottom.
Only suggestion is a combustion leak to the sump. But this still needs the vent to be blocked... Some-one else mentioned they can suffer from cracked heads. Not my experience, but.
DW

 

[higler]

Good luck. I have an 1800TD and the Haines for Fiestas '95 to '97 (the engine was actually sold in '95). Rebuilt it completely and the info was OK. The torqueing of the bolts was straightforward. The 1600 engine is older and has different threads. I had no probs finding the bolts in '2003', but might be more tricky now?
Bust the crank in 2007 (oil pump wear)and bought an Escort unit for £550. Had to change it from East/West to North/ South. But still goes like a train.
Really interested about the resolution of your oil prob. I have nothing to add, as all my ideas are already up here.
Only massive presurisation of the crankcase would blow out the oil, which assumes the breather is blocked. The dipstick would only vent gas/air as it is over the oil level, whereas the sump pump picks up from the bottom.
Only suggestion is a combustion leak to the sump. But this still needs the vent to be blocked... Some-one else mentioned they can suffer from cracked heads. Not my experience, but.
DW

Even a cracked head wouldnt have produced the amount of pressure I experienced, plus the breather should have taken care of it had it been that, its still an ongoing situation wondering if I should rebuild as Ive not found the reason..I will though as I will do everything by the book and double check. A friend of mine today told me of a similar experience with his BMW car it blew the oil filter apart when he stripped it down he couldnt find the reason for that so he rebuilt, and had the car a number of years and never had a repeat scenario. We live in hopes. N