Ford XLD 1800 diesel engine

[higler]

Heres a puzzler for someone out there who knows these engines--they were originally used in the fiesta and escort cars until about 2000, maybe a little later. I have one of these in my boat that I bought and refurbed last year, the engine has only done 66 hours running but was laid up for four years when the previous owner moved to Spain. The hours are genuine as I have all the original paperwork from Lancing marine. I renewed the belts filters etc and had it running fine in the boat yard then launched last Monday took it steady then took it up to 2000 revs and then the alarm and oil light came on I shut down straight away on inspection found it had dumped all the engine oil out through the sump pump into the bilge. Refilled the oil and my friend put his foot on the pump while I took her on to the mooring not 500 yards away and it still managed to shoot out more, I have since had the engine out and stripped it down-- oil pressure relief valve is fine, no blocked breather pipes, oil delivery strainer clear, rings are not stuck--only thing being the rings on 1 piston were not properly staggered, the only fault I could find, so now im looking for answers and hopefully someone who may have had a similar problem. Norman.

 

[tinkicker0]

This engine had an oil cooler twixt filter and body in automotive applications anyhow. Is it in good order? Looks like a tin can.

 

[VicS]

Are you sure the crankcase breather is not blocked/ obstructed.

Should there be a cap on the discharge pipe from the pump? Surely not just an opened pipe ... It would tend to blow the oil out if it is.

 

[theoldsalt]

Norman,

So if I'm getting it correct..... sump oil is being blown out of the sump pump into the bilge by pressure in the sump dispite the sump breather not being blocked. Is that right ? I wonder why oil is not being blown out of the breather !

 

[higler]

This engine had an oil cooler twixt filter and body in automotive applications anyhow. Is it in good order? Looks like a tin can.

Theres no oil cooler on this engine, i have one to fit on once ive got it running again

 

[higler]

Are you sure the crankcase breather is not blocked/ obstructed.

Should there be a cap on the discharge pipe from the pump? Surely not just an opened pipe ... It would tend to blow the oil out if it is.

The breather is clear , ive stripped everything down and checked. There isnt any cap on the sump pump, with the pressure the oil came out it would have blown the cap off unless it was a screw fit.

 

[higler]

Norman,

So if I'm getting it correct..... sump oil is being blown out of the sump pump into the bilge by pressure in the sump dispite the sump breather not being blocked. Is that right ? I wonder why oil is not being blown out of the breather !

Me and 2 engineers I know cant figure it out either.

 

[theoldsalt]

Norman,

If you are sure the bores, rings and pistons are in good order and you are getting good compression then combustion should not be pressurising the sump. How else can the sump get pressurised? Unless the main oil pump is doing it. Were you getting good oil pressure?

 

[VicS]

The breather is clear , ive stripped everything down and checked. There isnt any cap on the sump pump, with the pressure the oil came out it would have blown the cap off unless it was a screw fit.

Id expect a cap Personally I'd want a screw on one unless there was a valve or cock to shut.

 

[theoldsalt]

VicS,

Cap or no cap, screw on or push fit, there should not be that amount of pressure in the crank case/sump.

Lots of engines have sump pumps without caps or shutoff valves without any problems.

 

[higler]

Norman,

If you are sure the bores, rings and pistons are in good order and you are getting good compression then combustion should not be pressurising the sump. How else can the sump get pressurised? Unless the main oil pump is doing it. Were you getting good oil pressure?

This engine has only run 66 hours the bores are like new still with the etching in them, pistons are fine, The only thing as Ive said was the rings were fitted on 1 piston and were amost in line, im not sure if that could cause back pressure in to the sump enough to blow the oil out. Oil pressure was good at first but once the oil blew out, then obviously no oil no pressure, we refilled it and pressure was vey low. Ive checked the bearings and theyre good, plus the crank is very good.

 

[higler]

VicS,

Cap or no cap, screw on or push fit, there should not be that amount of pressure in the crank case/sump.

Lots of engines have sump pumps without caps or shutoff valves without any problems.

Ive had sump pumps on a number of boats over the years and never had a problem like this.

 

[theoldsalt]

Norman,

There may be a clue in the fact that the oil pressure was OK at first but since the "blow out" and refill it has been poor. Could an oil gallery have "blown" or an oil seal have failed which now prevents you getting good oil pressure? In other words the oil pump pressurises the sump instead of the oil galleries.

 

[pappaecho]

Some years ago I was involved in a marinisation of the XLD 1600 using Lancing Marine parts.

I seem to remember a part which I think blanked off a port which was used for the vacuum system for the braking system. I remember than Lancing included this in a list of parts.

Be worth checking that it was fitted. Speak to Lancing

 

[Bilge Rat]

Could be a red herring but...

Don't know if the sump pump is the same but we have a Ford Transit engine (marinised by Tempest) in our boat. Our sump pump has a Y- fitting with changeover valve on the inlet which allows the pump to either be used for draining the sump or you can attach a length of hose to the other tail of the Y and use the pump to suck oil etc out of the bilge. If the little change over valve isn't firmly in one position or the other, you get a bilge full of oil pretty quickly when the engine's running. Sods' law says it will be something more complicated but it might be worth a check before tearing the engine apart?

 

[higler]

Norman,

There may be a clue in the fact that the oil pressure was OK at first but since the "blow out" and refill it has been poor. Could an oil gallery have "blown" or an oil seal have failed which now prevents you getting good oil pressure? In other words the oil pump pressurises the sump instead of the oil galleries.

I see where your coming from but the low pressure only come about after the blow out, and I have been over the block checking for any break or blocked areas and havent found anything out of the ordinary.

 

[higler]

Some years ago I was involved in a marinisation of the XLD 1600 using Lancing Marine parts.

I seem to remember a part which I think blanked off a port which was used for the vacuum system for the braking system. I remember than Lancing included this in a list of parts.

Be worth checking that it was fitted. Speak to Lancing

This was one thing that I queried with an engineer but the port hasnt been blanked but a pipe leading from the vaccum housing to and joining the breather pipe was connected, I did ask if any pressure could be transfered down this pipe and was assured it couldnt do so.

 

[higler]

Don't know if the sump pump is the same but we have a Ford Transit engine (marinised by Tempest) in our boat. Our sump pump has a Y- fitting with changeover valve on the inlet which allows the pump to either be used for draining the sump or you can attach a length of hose to the other tail of the Y and use the pump to suck oil etc out of the bilge. If the little change over valve isn't firmly in one position or the other, you get a bilge full of oil pretty quickly when the engine's running. Sods' law says it will be something more complicated but it might be worth a check before tearing the engine apart?

would have been a possible reason but sorry to say its not, mine doesnt have a y fitting just a sraight direct pipe.

Im grateful to all you gents for your responses just maybe chucking ideas around may come up with the solution

 

[SailorBill]

Possible partial restriction in one or more oilways? That might explain why all was well when taking it steady but at higher revs the back pressure built up until it let go.

 

[VicS]

Possible partial restriction in one or more oilways? That might explain why all was well when taking it steady but at higher revs the back pressure built up until it let go.

I dont understand how any defect in the lubrication system can result in oil being discharged via the sump pump.

it has been suggested that fractured oil galley might, but that would just return oil to the sump from which it is being drawn by the oil pump
A blockage might cause an highish oil pressure but it should be controlled by the pressure relief valve. it still wont cause the oil to be ejected.

I am thinking about the vacuum pump. I am surprised they don't remove it as part of the marinisation but I guess there's a reason why not.

I had a 1600 version long ago but I forget what the vac pump was like or where it discharged too ( the 1800 might be different anyway).
If it's suction, which would normally be connected to the brake servo, was open it would be pumping air somewhere. Into the inlet manifold ??. IIRC that is where the crankcase breather is connected so perhaps it can be blowing air back through the breather .... but I doubt it.


The low oil pressure now is a bit of a bummer. Must be due, I would think, to a wrecked bearing due to oil starvation or perhaps the oil pump is buggered.

If there is enough oil pressure to risk running the engine I think I would pull the crankcase breather hoses off while it is running to see what is blowing where.

Any chance there is problem with an inlet valve and that is resulting in pressure build up in the manifold and the breather ??

Timing of the camshaft OK ??

I though these engines were bullet proof .... my 1600 outlasted the car it was fitted in with no major troubles at all.