For those thinking changing Red to White diesel

Refueler

Refueler

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It also affects all actually as Red is reduced in sulphur levels to follow Road white.

Contrary to some peoples thoughts Red Diesel is not poor quality - it's just blended to different specs often from similar stock to road grade. Presently it has a sulphur level of 0.1% or less. Road at 10ppm or less.

Let's take a boat tank that has happily been filled year after year with red from all and sundry. No matter what fuel - you will get build ups of sediments, crud and gums. Summer grade left in tanks over winter ... gum drops out ... parafins etc.
These all form a cake or crust in tank bottoms.

Come along changes and you start throwing white or low sulphur gasoil (diesel) in ... someone thinks .. Oh a bit of injector system cleaner as well - let's get rid of the remnants of red ...

Not long later and you start to notice engine performance falling off. You blame this bl**y change of diesel. That bl**y Refuelers sent cra* over again !

Look nearer home I'm afraid. And here I can talk from my own experience as well ! What happens is the change of diesel and cleaners / solvents etc. starts to lift that crust and it starts to block filters, because it can really break down fine - it also gets to your injection thimble filter. Thimble filter is a small thimble sized filter trap inside the main inlet of injection pump.

So take care and be sparing with system cleaners - they are simply solvents. If you have crud in tank bottom you may have to do like I had to - break it up and suck out with Pela or similar. Kerosine or gasoline is a good light solvent to help - but be careful with vapour etc. and really only use it to get last dregs ... flushing out with diesel as that will dilute the volatile gasoline / kero.

This is an advisory from the "Nigel cache of Useless Info Archive" ... /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif

Good boating and hope your injectors stay clean !
 
Very useful advice. I have a memory of reading that white diesel had a higher octane rating than red diesel. Is this definitely not the case? I have run my boats on white diesel since suffering from the diesel bug a few years ago. I based this change on the belief (though with absolutely no supporting evidence) that white diesel is stored more carefully and consequently arrives with a lower moisture content.
 
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Very useful advice. I have a memory of reading that white diesel had a higher octane rating than red diesel. Is this definitely not the case? I have run my boats on white diesel since suffering from the diesel bug a few years ago. I based this change on the belief (though with absolutely no supporting evidence) that white diesel is stored more carefully and consequently arrives with a lower moisture content.

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No Road diesel slightly higher in Cetane ... I don't have details in front of me but think road is 49~ ... Red is 40~. have to check that. Anyway - it's a few points higher but not enough really to hurt average yacht engine - maybe important to a high performance MOBO.

Moisture content ? Not at this end when we blend. But maybe after storage etc. It really comes down to turnover of storage tanks and retail premises.
 
Not doubting a word of what you have said - you are, after all, the expert in these matters. But can you explain why the lubricating oil in my engine (6-cylinder Iveco) stays noticeably cleaner when using white compared to red diesel. I'm not talking about a marginal difference - the oil stays cleanish for weeks after an oil change on white whereas it would start to blacken after a couple of hours on red.
 
Pheran,

Red or white should be transparent to actual engine combustion process. Modern low emission engines run retarded to reduce Nox and tend to produce higher levels of soot. This is one of the reasons we require high performance oils in low emission engines is to keep the soot in suspension. Oil getting black equals good. It is not building up as crud on mechanical components and causing problems.
 
? This is just a guess - as I've never heard or been asked this before. The Red has a higher sulphur content plus red / yellow marker dye. Maybe a combination of the components used to blend Red and above sulphur / dye is cause.

If intentions as we are informed are carried out - to reduce sulphur levels to similar to road - then maybe this will cease later in your engine ?
 
'white diesel had a higher octane rating than red diesel."

I thought this too.
The only information I've ever been given re' the difference between red & white was that red did not have the 'ignition-enhancers' in it. Maybe that's what the Cetol is.?

I do remember that my farm land-rover ran noisier on red & smoked just a tiny bit more.
Jock
 
Octane is spark ignition fuels such as gasoline.

Cetane is comression ignition fuels as (Diesel) Gasoil.

They are not interchangeable. Well of course they can be tested for it but results would be idiotic !

As to soot - never said there wasn't. I get a terrible black ar*e on my boat from various blends. Tcut or Bathroom stain cleaner and I'm white again.

Gasoil is a high particulate matter producing fuel, it actually is producing bad air in many cities now and actions are discussed to reduce. We may have reduced Gasoline / lead fouling of the air - but diesel is making up for it ...
 
Anyway point of the original post by me was to warn of trying to be too clean when you change - by adding Snake oil brews !
Clean tank by all means mechanically ... let the fuel do the system for you !!
 
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Anyway point of the original post by me was to warn of trying to be too clean when you change - by adding Snake oil brews !
Clean tank by all means mechanically ... let the fuel do the system for you !!

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Thanks - a good post. I was about to add some injector cleaner. Perhaps I should add it to the Racor filter rather than the tank. - or is it complete rubbish and a waste of time!
 
injector cleaner is a good tool if system is clean already - to keep it clean. But not for cleaniNG a system ... then you end up with problems. Cleaner is basically a solvent ... could be toluene based or similar. It will only dissolve a small amount - rest it may dislodge as it did in my tank.
 
I have learned something from this thread. I never appreciated the difference between octane and cetane ratings (in truth, I had never heard of a cetane rating). Having just read two good Wikipeadia entries I now believe my ignorance is corrected. Never again will I mention "octane" and "diesel" in the same sentence.
 
That's good ... I've achieved something anyway !!

Putting it roughly it's too do with density of charge and power produced.


Back to cleaners - manufacturers don't want to say don't use to CLEAN system - which IMHO is what they should tell you. I know they even sell to motor trade liquid magic which is even stronger than you get over counter. Service Guy used to put it in my 24V Carlton - till I said Oi ! Enough mate ! (He became my ex's new friend !).

It's great for keeping a system clean. I use it occasionally in my car and boat (now that boat is CLEAN !!).
 
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Pheran,

Red or white should be transparent to actual engine combustion process. Modern low emission engines run retarded to reduce Nox and tend to produce higher levels of soot.

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What's a "modern low emission engine"?

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This is one of the reasons we require high performance oils in low emission engines is to keep the soot in suspension. Oil getting black equals good.

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What's a "high performance oil"?
/forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif

(1990 GM10 run on Halfrauds cheapest - OK, the '04 turbot-diesel car I drive to the boat gets rather better treatment)

I now use white 'cos a 5l jerry can each trip to the swinging mooring is less hassle than buying red.
 
TBH - traders / oil co's etc. don't care about what engine you have. They ask us to blend to the current Fuel Specs. If a motor manufaturer decides to step outside of the spec fuel - then that's their lookout.
Same with lub-oils etc.

I don't investigate different engines ... indirect, direct, common rail etc. etc. ----- Why ? they mean nothing to blending.

Ok - I use cheapest Lub Oil I can find as long as its suited to temp. here. I don't even look to see if it's diesel rated .... that's my lookout.
But please note that cheap oils can be reconstituted / recycled oil. Cleaned, spiked and additives to regain viscosity, colour etc. I'm not allowed to name those that are majority reclaimed - but they do exist. Many economy blends are a blend of new and recon old. Fine - no problem, just don't expect to run significantly over change intervals. Keep good schedule and they are fine.
 
So what's your view on stuff like Marine 16 to keep bugs at bay? Despite boat being only 2 years old, I got awful black gunge in tank - the 30 micron Racor pre-filter took it out but got a bit clogged. Fortunately I have a very large inspection hole in the top of the tank and have been able to clean it with paraffin, rags and a toothbrush (for those welds and corners). When I fill up again, I intended to add Marine 16 as despite my best efforts I am sure I will not have removed every last spec of black gunge or its cause.
 
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Many economy blends are a blend of new and recon old. Fine - no problem, just don't expect to run significantly over change intervals. Keep good schedule and they are fine.

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Good point - on most of my engines I aim for a change (probably without filter unless there's a good reason) at half the suggested interval with cheap-but-still-SAE-spec oil.

A friend used to run Mobil1 - 2000 miles in his bike; filter, allow to settle, then filter again; 5000 miles in his car; filter, allow to settle, then filter again, then into his Landy where it was burnt off. /forums/images/graemlins/ooo.gif

I think the suggestion to "use the most expensive oil that you can afford to change regularly" covers it.
 
A couple of related questions to draw on your expertise- I draw fuel from a council depot where there are two pumps labelled 'diesel' and 'gas oil'. Am I right in assuming they are DERV and red diesel respectively? (I only use the 'diesel' for my bus which is liable for road fuel duty.

Second question - I have found my engines to be running at a lot lower power than when they were new. I now struggle to get 8.5 knots with a lot of smoke where at one time I could get 11. I have flushed the agglomerators and replaced filter cartridges to no avail. Any suggestions what the problem might be?
 
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So what's your view on stuff like Marine 16 to keep bugs at bay? Despite boat being only 2 years old, I got awful black gunge in tank - the 30 micron Racor pre-filter took it out but got a bit clogged. Fortunately I have a very large inspection hole in the top of the tank and have been able to clean it with paraffin, rags and a toothbrush (for those welds and corners). When I fill up again, I intended to add Marine 16 as despite my best efforts I am sure I will not have removed every last spec of black gunge or its cause.

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My view on bug treatments ? I use them only sparingly. To use continuously ? My pocket is not that deep and I cannot IMHO see why. If you have clean system - then by all means a shot now and again to keep things that way. Don't firget that concentration to kill bug is a lot higher than to control it. So filling up a tank before it's empty will still have some killer in it. But that's my view and not a pro one. I don't sell the stuff - so have no axe to grind !

Really there's no harm in using it and possibly only benefit. But who knows unless it failed ?
 
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