For those contemplating doing Holland this year.

Re-read the article several times now, so here goes...

1. Quite a rant about how hard it was to get answers from Douane and the patchy interpretation of the rules. Lots of local differences.

2. The Dutch (and as far as I know neither does any other country) do NOT make a distinction between diesel used for propulsion or heating. No red diesel for leisure craft!

3. Detailed explication of what Douane looks for. The red dye added to the diesel is called Solvent Yellow 124. The maximum your diesel can contain is 0.12 milligram per litre. There were testemonies of boat owners being charged for the lab test (€282.03).

4. Further to Gwylan's comment - the Douane spokesman said that the fine would be €4.53 per litre of diesel on board - not the capacity of the tank. Must have been an example of different local interpretation.

My private thoughts on the subject:

First there was the obligation to carry the ANWB book (regardless of the fact you spoke/understand Dutch or not). Then there was the VHF - ATIS thing. Then the poo tank - even though pump-out stations are still few and far between. Now this... the red diesel and the alcohol.
Exactly how do you spell nanny/police state and how badly do you really, really want to go to Holland?
Why don't they just put up a sign: HOLLAND - KEEP OUT & **** OFF.

I have neither the intention nor the desire of going anywhere near the place anytime soon.
 
sailorman said:
Might Have :D even been to Gouda on market day ;) waiting for the bridge to be repaired
all the rest tastes the same & very salty.
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'What cheese is made backwards? Edam '

Sailed in there once . Very narrow entrance when you meet a barge coming the other way. Pretty spot .

Edam cheese ? Nah..........
 
Guapa said:
Re-read the article several times now, so here goes...

1. Quite a rant about how hard it was to get answers from Douane and the patchy interpretation of the rules. Lots of local differences.

2. The Dutch (and as far as I know neither does any other country) do NOT make a distinction between diesel used for propulsion or heating. No red diesel for leisure craft!

3. Detailed explication of what Douane looks for. The red dye added to the diesel is called Solvent Yellow 124. The maximum your diesel can contain is 0.12 milligram per litre. There were testemonies of boat owners being charged for the lab test (€282.03).

4. Further to Gwylan's comment - the Douane spokesman said that the fine would be €4.53 per litre of diesel on board - not the capacity of the tank. Must have been an example of different local interpretation.

My private thoughts on the subject:

First there was the obligation to carry the ANWB book (regardless of the fact you spoke/understand Dutch or not). Then there was the VHF - ATIS thing. Then the poo tank - even though pump-out stations are still few and far between. Now this... the red diesel and the alcohol.
Exactly how do you spell nanny/police state and how badly do you really, really want to go to Holland?
Why don't they just put up a sign: HOLLAND - KEEP OUT & **** OFF.

I have neither the intention nor the desire of going anywhere near the place anytime soon.
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So your not to keen on the Cloggies then :confused::D
 
Guapa said:
Whatever gives you that idea? :confused:
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i might have a
DuvalPicture.jpg
tonight :D
But in a Jazzers Glass
 
Peegee said:
Last year 50% of cruisers bottled out of going to Holland as the scare mongers claimed that you would be shot if you sh*t, or roggered if you radioed.
In the end there was absolutely nothing, zilch, nix, bu**er all, to worry about....if you were sensible!
I would suggest waiting for an "official" dictat befor we all abandon hope.....Anyway, I'm going.
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Last year there were two documented cases of Brits being 'done' for having red diesel (one was a vicar :o ) - though not for poo tanks.

You may well get lucky and not notice a thing (I have been successfully playing the 'Average Speed Check' lottery for years :o ), but it only takes one officious w-anchor to really **** up your holiday. :(
 
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Guapa said:
Been reading this month's copy of Zeilen Magazine - the Dutch YM counterpart (only much better).

Red diesel.

A no-no.
Customs (Douane) will patrol vigorously.
You will be OK if:
- you have your UK receipts and a detailed engine logbook (hours run, etc...).
You will be not so OK if:
- you only have receipts but no detailed engine logbook but Douane accepts that you acted in good faith. In that case there's a one-off fine of €226.
You're ****ed if:
- you have neither. Douane will consider you did not act in good faith and you will be fined €4.53 per litre of red diesel found on board.


Alcohol while underway

According to new legislation now making it's way through parliament boats will be put on an equal footing with cars. When breathalysed alcohol level should not exceed 0.5
Note: whilst in the case of cars they just beathalyse the driver, in the case of boats the entire crew can/will be breathalysed.

You've been warned ;)
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mmmmm....

I only have a six gallon tank. Looks like I will have to invest more in sail technology or probably just pay the fine.

Pity. I used to a very pretty array of red, green and black fuel cans strapped to the deck !

Could you give me a price please for no atis, no holding tank, a 6 gallon tank of red diesel with a receipt,and no engine hour gizmo, reasonably sober . ?

If it's under £400 , for a 3 week trip I will budget it in and make a few savings by drinking other people's beer.
 
So, you cant import filthy other countries diesel in a can. Tch.

Guapa is right.

Stay away.

My courtesy flags for the Channel Isles arrived this evening.

But I longingly look at Norway.
 
The RYA Resopnce regarding Red Diesel & Holland

Dear
The RYA has taken the advice of a specialist tax barrister, who has confirmed our view that the UK's continued use of red diesel in pleasure yachts is lawful under EU law. As such, we have been working with HMRC on an ongoing basis in an effort to persuade the authorities in the Netherlands and Belgium in particular that yachts visiting those countries from the UK with red diesel in their main propulsion tanks should not be penalised. We are also lobbying the European Commission to confirm the position under EU law and to put pressure on those authorities.

In the mean time, we recommend that people anticipate being stopped in the Netherlands and Belgium and therefore carry copies of the translated letter from the EU Commission detailing that the diesel may be used as long as it is duty paid (and this can be proven), together with the receipts (marked duty paid) and a log of engine hours (if possible) showing how the diesel has been used. It is also important to fill up with the correct fuel whilst abroad (i.e. it is generally not legal to buy red diesel for use in pleasure craft elsewhere in the EU) and retain these receipts as well. By following this advice, boaters should not experience difficulties cruising other countries in the EU.

If members do experience difficulties with the authorities in the Netherlands or Belgium first hand then we ask them to send us a detailed report (including the relevant paperwork) so that we can take their specific cases up with HMRC.

Kind regards
Carol

Carol Paddison | RYA Cruising Officer | e-mail carol.paddison@rya.org.uk
 
Well Done!

Once again you have put the scare mongers to flight with one thrust of your mighty.............er!..keyboard?
Cheers
 
I fairly bemused by all this stuff.
The regs which we've ended up with are hardly an ideal solution (e.g. our local boatyard now doesn't sell red diesel because he doesn't want to do the paperwork, surprise surprise) but it's hardly much bother to keep fuel receipts on board, and I always log engine hours anyway.
I have cruised to Holland many times, have always hugely enjoyed it and found the locals to be unfailingly pleasant and welcoming.
As it happens we don't have the time to go foreign this year, but if we were I wouldn't be put off at all.
 
sailorman said:
Dear
The RYA has taken the advice of a specialist tax barrister, who has confirmed our view that the UK's continued use of red diesel in pleasure yachts is lawful under EU law. As such, we have been working with HMRC on an ongoing basis in an effort to persuade the authorities in the Netherlands and Belgium in particular that yachts visiting those countries from the UK with red diesel in their main propulsion tanks should not be penalised. We are also lobbying the European Commission to confirm the position under EU law and to put pressure on those authorities.

In the mean time, we recommend that people anticipate being stopped in the Netherlands and Belgium and therefore carry copies of the translated letter from the EU Commission detailing that the diesel may be used as long as it is duty paid (and this can be proven), together with the receipts (marked duty paid) and a log of engine hours (if possible) showing how the diesel has been used. It is also important to fill up with the correct fuel whilst abroad (i.e. it is generally not legal to buy red diesel for use in pleasure craft elsewhere in the EU) and retain these receipts as well. By following this advice, boaters should not experience difficulties cruising other countries in the EU.

If members do experience difficulties with the authorities in the Netherlands or Belgium first hand then we ask them to send us a detailed report (including the relevant paperwork) so that we can take their specific cases up with HMRC.

Kind regards
Carol

Carol Paddison | RYA Cruising Officer | e-mail carol.paddison@rya.org.uk
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Well done Roger, good answer.
Can you write to RYA again requesting that they send all boaters a cheque for a couple of grand to pay any fines, so that the RYA can claim the money back through HMRC and the European Courts please?
I only ask as I think individuals have been fined, and have been having difficulty getting their money back.
 
Peegee said:
Once again you have put the scare mongers to flight with one thrust of your mighty.............er!..keyboard?
Cheers
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Just because you didn't get stopped doesn't mean everyone else is scaremongering :mad::mad:

As Full Circle said

Can you write to RYA again requesting that they send all boaters a cheque for a couple of grand to pay any fines, so that the RYA can claim the money back through HMRC and the European Courts please?
I only ask as I think individuals have been fined, and have been having difficulty getting their money back.
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There were at least two documented cases of Brits being fined last year for having red diesel in Holland. Both were boarded in Breskens.
The vicar even made YM last year.

Having been caught in a discussion with Dutch customs last year (also in Breskens) I can only say that the RYA letter did not impress them at all.
What's required is something from HMRC.

You could ask what HMRC still does? They don't seem to get involved in this red diesel issue - they stopped providing (deemed) VAT paid certificates years ago - ... Too busy counting paperclips? :rolleyes:
 
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