for ***** sake these bloody toilets

[lanerboy]

roger

you were correct in your earlier post it was no' 16 in jimmy's picture but that diagram was not quiet right and my toilet and my diagram are slightly different hence the different no's on the blown up diagram still the same part I think just numbered different

cheers shawsn

 

[jfm]

Shawn,
I'm late to this thread sorry. I've used those loos a lot on borrowed boat and don't much like them. Sure, you can fix them but they go wrong a bit too easily imho. They were standard Fairline fit for a while and they were in my 2009 sq58 but I insisted they were taken out and replaced by Tecma as part of the deal to buy the boat..

Anyway, just on a techie point, they do not rely on vacuum at all. They are nothing like an aircraft loo or a Sealand Vacuflush. The (weak) design requires the turd to turn a corner and enter the spigot of part 12, then the part 13 is BOTH a chopper and an impeller. This frankly doesn't work too well with hard turds because the only thing pushing the turd onto the chopping blades is the flow of water being pumped by the impeller, and a bit of gravity. At same time, the 90 deg bend and friction work against you.

As the pump is a centrifugal pump the impeller must be immersed to create any flow. If a stiff turd sticks in the 90 deg bend but the fluid gets pumped away, it is critical to flush more flush water into the thing because it cannot continue to try to pump the turd unless it is ALSO pumping fluid at the same time.

A stuck or stiff-rubbered joker valve restricts flow, so that is worth changing - part 8. In some installations you don't even need the joker valve to stop back flow, but you likely do need it to stop odour coming back from the black tank, so best keep it. The outlet pipe in 19mm size is just annoying but at least yours is known to be clean/new

Normally I'd strongly recommend changing to Tecma but they have risen to something like £700 each AND they need 38mm discharge piping which means a new seacock and lift out, and/or new pipe fitting into your black tank, so a bigger job than just changing the toilets themselves. PLUS their foot print is bigger (I have before/after photos somewhere, on another PC, of the swap-out on my Sq58) and I do not think they will fit on your GRP pedestals. So for all those reason you gotta persevere with the Jabsco units and your swap of 8,11,12,13,14,15,16 is the right thing to do imho. And swap to (warmer) freshwater flush if you fancy a separate project. Good luck anyway.

 

[lanerboy]

cheers john

I don't really want to go to the expense of changing toilets seems a bit drastic imho I just need to get these right,

regards the 38mm discharge outlet that would not be as big a job as you think the reason being is that I only have about 1 mtr length of 19mm pipe coming out the back of the loo this then goes up to one of these but mine has an adapter on one end reducing it for the 19mm pipe

this is attached to the side of the boat. the pipe then fits onto the u bend on one end and then where it comes off the other side of the u bend it changes to 38mm pipe this then goes to the diverter valve then either holding tank or sea cock so most of the discharge pipe is in 38mm its just the small I mtr section directly off the back of the loo that is in 19mm

I am still considering changing this small section to 38mm like the rest of the pipe to reduce restriction and increase flow area, I will then only have a small 12 inch section of 19mm rubber pipe that fits onto no' 9 in my diagram this is in the shape of the letter s this pipe tucks in behind the toilet base, I might even be able to get rid of this pipe and have 38mm right up to the elbow as long as I have the room in the floor to hide it and I can get a straight reducer from 38mm-19mm

what are your thoughts on this modification

cheers shawn

 

[DAKA]

cheers john

I don't really want to go to the expense of changing toilets seems a bit drastic imho I just need to get these right,

I think your first step is to test the cold water isnt the problem.

I think at least three people have suggested the water temperature may be your problem.

Your first 'cheap fix' is to press the button during 'touch down' to remove the waste while it is soft and flexible.
if the waste is left in the cold water it solidifies and will not bend round the bowl / waste pipe to ever get near the macerator blades.

jfm has also introduced a new problem in that the chocker valve is also submerged in cold water so it isnt as flexible so the press during the grunt may not work if the choker valve is stiff.

Will your shower reach the bowl ?

In the depths of winter I just fill my bowl with hot water from the shower which solves the issue.
Otherwise you maybe need a kettleful of boiling water standing by.

 

[capsco]

I am struggling to understand the problem, unless it is the chopper that is not engaging on the flat drive section of the shaft, I did a small mod on mine to ensure that it could not slip, I have had one of these in bits on a couple of occasions, water had got into the motor and I had to do a major clean up on it but it worked albeit very noisily, so I fitted a new motor, this is equally as noisy as the old one.

The impeller is quite a sturdy item , if this has been damaged, I suggest you see a doctor!!!!!!

Seriously though, it is a very crude system but providing that the chopper and the impeller are locating on the flat section of the shaft there is no reason for it not to work.
Good luck.

 

[lanerboy]

Daka you have a good point along with jfm and that valve, yes the shower will easily reach the loo so perhaps I should empty the toilet before use then fill with warm water and like you say as soon as it hits the bowl (now full of warm water) hit the flush button to discharge it

I will have a meeting with the family and explain all this in detail around the kitchen table

I should introduce the rule of you block it you clear it that would make them think rather than just shouting DAAAAAAD

 

[T1ony]

what is item 4a as it looks like a spreader or another blade, would this not make big items smaller ready for the next chopper blade

 

[adey]

Probably no good to you but there's a 24v Tecma on e-bay at the mo.
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Electric-...tEquipment_Accessories_SM&hash=item5af95e070b

 

[rafiki_]

The impeller is quite a sturdy item , if this has been damaged, I suggest you see a doctor!!!!!!
.

 

[jfm]

I am still considering changing this small section to 38mm like the rest of the pipe to reduce restriction and increase flow area, I will then only have a small 12 inch section of 19mm rubber pipe that fits onto no' 9 in my diagram this is in the shape of the letter s this pipe tucks in behind the toilet base, I might even be able to get rid of this pipe and have 38mm right up to the elbow as long as I have the room in the floor to hide it and I can get a straight reducer from 38mm-19mm

what are your thoughts on this modification

For the tiny cost I think that's a good mod. The pump in the toilet is a centrifugal pump but it is quite a crude pump and it doesn't have the curved blades and sea-shell shaped chamber that a good centrifugal pump has. You need the best water flow you can get while flushing, so reducing friction in the downstream piping has to be a good idea. So this is worth doing

But remember the biggest restrictor in the downstream flow is the damned joker valve. change it if ever the rubber is getting hard, and keep it supple. Maybe cut some of the rubber away with a penknife to make it as supple as possible. And it will prefer warmer flush water.

 

[jfm]

Probably no good to you but there's a 24v Tecma on e-bay at the mo.
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Electric-...tEquipment_Accessories_SM&hash=item5af95e070b

That's a good buy. It might be one that I owned and sold a few years ago - did LJS own it too!!??
It is the deep model (in the front-to back sense) but that's right for shawn's bathroom. And it is the one that must sit on a pedestal - again see shawn's pic. The discolouration on the lid is unfortunately normal - they are mdf painted in white enamel and if you leave them in a closed box the white paint goes cream, like the skirting boards in a house if you put a cabinet up to the wall and leave it there a few years. The lid can be resprayed or changed for a new one - no big deal. It is 24v though. The tecma control panel is a few mm bigger than the jabsco one which also makes changing jabsco for tecma quite easy. I might buy it for spares because the motor and rubber parts inside are much more than £150 as spares

 

[lanerboy]

why are the Tecma toilets so much better, how do they work compared to the toilets in my boat

also how much of a job is it for me to fir this one as it is 24v rather than 12v

cheers shawn

 

[petem]

That's a good buy. It might be one that I owned and sold a few years ago - did LJS own it too!!??
It is the deep model (in the front-to back sense) but that's right for shawn's bathroom. And it is the one that must sit on a pedestal - again see shawn's pic. The discolouration on the lid is unfortunately normal - they are mdf painted in white enamel and if you leave them in a closed box the white paint goes cream, like the skirting boards in a house if you put a cabinet up to the wall and leave it there a few years. The lid can be resprayed or changed for a new one - no big deal. It is 24v though. The tecma control panel is a few mm bigger than the jabsco one which also makes changing jabsco for tecma quite easy. I might buy it for spares because the motor and rubber parts inside are much more than £150 as spares

Jfm, Your garage must be like an Aladdins cave of boat goodies!

 

[longjohnsilver]

That's a good buy. It might be one that I owned and sold a few years ago - did LJS own it too!!??
I might buy it for spares because the motor and rubber parts inside are much more than £150 as spares

Could be the same one jfm, although I don't remember sending it to Lowestoft, but it was a few years ago. Certainly was a 24v model which is why I didn't use it. Went to someone on the forum.

Go on John, buy it again - how many folks can claim to have re-purchased a toilet they used to own?

 

[Forty_Two]

Get rid of the 19mm pipe, this is bad news.

I have 2 of theses Jabsco Quiet flush toilets. They last for years with the refurbishment kits.

Jfm is right, replace the joker valve. I have 38mm pipe directly on the outlet & have no trouble pumping up round the loop into the tank.

Refurbed my aft one in 2013 & it works very well.

Use proper sanitation grade 38mm pipe. Should be able to go 2-3 years between service. I replaced my first pair after 12 years.

 

[lanerboy]

Get rid of the 19mm pipe, this is bad news.

I have 38mm pipe directly on the outlet & have no trouble pumping up round the loop into the tank.

hi Forty two

do you mean your 38mm is direct fit onto the elbow or do you still have the black rubber s shaped bit if pipe that tucks in behind the toilet still fitted, then your 38mm is fitted onto this with a straight connector

cheers shawn

 

[Forty_Two]

hi Forty two

do you mean your 38mm is direct fit onto the elbow or do you still have the black rubber s shaped bit if pipe that tucks in behind the toilet still fitted, then your 38mm is fitted onto this with a straight connector

cheers shawn

My 38mm pipe goes straight onto item 12, the outlet adapter. I use a bit of 19mm pipe over the adapter to take up the slack to match the 38mm pipe.

I just realized you have the more modern units with the enclosed base which i don't have, so maybe you are stuck with some 19mm, i don't know as I have not seen inside one like that. If so my advice would be to convert to 38mm as soon as possible or this will be a recurrent issue.

Mine are also the fresh water inlet versions which are so much better - no smell & one less impeller.

On these the macerator does all the work, no separate impeller whereas yours have an impeller to suck the seawater in.

I also keep a spare housing item 15 as that gets rather gungy & so i replace every few years.

 

[lanerboy]

I am going to try and get my 38mm pipe to fit onto no 9 in my pic and do away with the rubber s shaped pipe as you and others have said the bigger the pipe then better the flow

 

[Forty_Two]

I am going to try and get my 38mm pipe to fit onto no 9 in my pic and do away with the rubber s shaped pipe as you and others have said the bigger the pipe then better the flow

I think that would help, i don't like the 90 degree bend tho, goes against any sensible ideas for waste discharge, especially as it's only 19mm.

For me that's a step too far just to hide the pipe, but i can understand the pressure (see what i did there) to have an enclosed base by the boat builders!

Suppose you could bring the pipe straight out through the side using white pipe but would't look as nice but would certainly reduce issues.

I am on the boat between 2 - 4 months a year & find i need a full service which may include replacing pipework, or at least removing & bashing it around to remove the scale buildup, every 3 years which i reckon is pretty good.

I would not normally need to do any work in between services.

Good luck with this, Paul

Edit: You would need the straight adapter to bring the pipe out of the side.

 

[STEVEDUNSTABLE]

Jfm, Your garage must be like an Aladdins cave of boat goodies!

never mind his garage, his brain must be a filing system of every thing that has even the most minuscule connection to anything aquatic !!!!!...... without you JFM we are nothing and unworthy !!!!!!!!.......out of interest what was the skin thickness on the average ancient coracle ??