Follow-up from Suzuki DF4 problem

jcshores

jcshores

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Bradenton, Florida
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Since posting the original issue a few days ago (new-ish engine...), here is what I have done and what the engine is doing. (SUZUKI DF4, 4 STROKE 4HP OUTBOARD, 2YRS OLD, 50-60 HRS)
Cleaned and gapped the plug.
Changed engine and gear oil
lubed
Inspected and for safe measure, cleaned fuel filter.
Inspected all lines for kinks and/or blockage (none)
And most importantly,
removed the carb, cleaned all jets, float, springs, screws, etc. Basically everything I could remove within the carb itself and some things that did not move. (BTW there was NO varnish inside when I started it was clean as a whistle)
The engine starts, idles kinda rough, but when I apply throttle it dies! /forums/images/graemlins/mad.gif If I find the "sweet spot" with the choke half open (engaged) , I can throttle it up without killing it. But that's ONLY with a little choke. I am getting VERY PO'd. I have been sitting around for nearly 3 months recovering and now that I am physically able to get back out on the water...this happens. I NEED HELP PLEASE. /forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif I cannot afford to take it in so I am trying EVERYTHING I can before I have to start saving "labor money"
 
go and get a NEW ngk spark plug and try it then and spark plugs these days dont seem to like being cleaned and re gaped ! also turn the air screw right in a then out 2 and a half turns then start the engine and adjust untill it sounds smooth.
 
OK, I forgot to mention, I have this old 20 horse Johnson I inherited as a project. It has 2 new plugs in it (correct size etc) so I put one of them in the Zuki. There was no change, good or bad.
Now, as for the air screw, is it the brass screw located just under the throttle linkage? If so, I monkeyed with that a bit but it made the engine stall. I could back it out just a hair and the idle would smooth out and it would rev "WOO HOO" I said. Well, it only lasted a few seconds before the rpm's slowly dropped back to idle and it tried to die.
Thanks for the reply. I am determined, one way or another to enjoy tomorrow's forcasted beautiful day on the water!
 
If it starts and runs surely the electric side is ok, although writing this, the HT lead? I think I would go back to the fuel. I had a very trouble some 4hp evenrude and finally got it working by having the carb ultrasonically cleaned but at the same time one of the fuel lines turned out to be blocked. You say you have checked yours so is something being picked up in the fuel tank? /forums/images/graemlins/ooo.gif

Good luck with it.
 
NEW fuel? Did you use proper carb cleaner? Clean inside plug cap (tracking). Make sure correct type new plug. Try with hood off (exhaust leak).
 
I ride a Suzuki Intruder. When I had it serviced a couple of weeks ago I mentioned the problem I was having with my outboard and the service guy sold me a can of Suzuki brand Carb and Choke Cleaner SP-3C, that's what I am using. As for the cover, all of the run-ups I have done are done with the engine cover off. However, I haven't yet considered an exhaust leak. What has always lead me to believe it is a fuel problem is that it ran perfectly before I set it aside in June, but I didn't drain the fuel and it sat there for 2 months. But as I have stated, when I cracked open the carb there was ZERO varnish or gummy material. So although not impossible, it would seem unlikely that an exhaust leak could develop from sitting dormant in a garage...?
 
[ QUOTE ]
air leak in fuel pipeline ?

cheers Joe

[/ QUOTE ]

HMMM, sitting dormant COULD cause a rubber hose to crack...Thanks Joe, now the question is how do i determine?
 
I am assuming that this is a remote fuel tank. If so pumping the priming bulb is the way to diagnose any problems with the fuel system twixt tank and carb including the fuel pump.

I am afraid though that the symptoms, namely that it will run with a touch of choke but not without , still point to a partly blocked carb jet (or a mixture adjustment way out). Did you poke a soft wire through it/them?
 
Exhaust leaks only have effect if hood is on. I think these models have integral tank? I would clean the carb/tank again anyway. Do compressed air as well if you have it. This can be used to put slight pressure on hoses and fuel system while you look and listen for leaks.

I have found that on integral tanks the hair and fibres from clothes finds it`s way into carb jets as you fill up. It stumped me on a few YAM 4hp I had.........until I found two hairs (no jokes) in a jet from my Icelandic jumper /forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif
 
I had the same symptons on a DF15 and it was a pinprick hole in the fuel line
the air leans the mixture,the choke richens it
cheers Joe
 
Vic, for info, sometimes these symptoms can be caused by a bad plug/weak spark/badcoil. The spark is intense enough under light idle condition to light the fire but when the throttle is opened the increased cylinder pressures make the spark fail.
My bet is still on a reduced flow/blockage in the fuel system though!
Stu
 
[ QUOTE ]
Vic, for info

[/ QUOTE ] Yes I know

I made the point, sort of, about the plug when the question first appeared on the Mobo forum ('twas I who suggested re-posting on R2R)

I now know that it has a 1.5 litre integral fuel tank, not a remote. So that pretty much rules out air leakages into the fuel line, and pump defects I guess. There will be a filter somewhere probably in the tank outlet which it would be wise to check. Problems with fuel taps are not unknown either!

A check on fuel flow to the carb is in order, as is a check on the float needle valve.

If it were mine i would clean the carb jets again. I have only had this sort of problem twice. Once was with some dodgy fuel, and I ended up stripping the carb on one of the buoys outside Cowes in the middle of the night! The other time was with the same engine after it had got a little water in the tank. That time, at home fortunately, I stripped and cleaned the carb several times before I got it sorted. I could blow through the jet, I could see through the jet but it was still partly blocked and it took a wire through it to clear it properly.

df4_intro.jpg
 
I ran a stripped piece of CAT 5 (i'm a QC inspector for an A/V company, the wire was 22 gauge) thru one of the jets, the one under the float. The others I could see thru easily.
I used compressed air and carb cleaner to blow thru the fuel filter. I have beome quite proficient at removing the carb so I guess I'll do it again as Vic suggested.
What really has me perplexed, and I am sounding like a broken record here, is...it SAT dormant, upright, in my garage! (for those younger readers, who may not know what a record is, it's a piece of compressed vinyl that held recorded music on it. It's how we old farts once got our tunes. Then again, CD's skip too so I guess the adage could be amended, what do you say Gents? LOL)
Itried to add a pic of the carb and the jet I "wired" but alas, I do not know how.
BTW, thank you all for taking such an interest in my problem. I am desperate to get it running and like I said, unfortunately after being off of work so long from surgery, I cannot afford to support my local mechanic...yet.
OH, and yes, it IS an integrated fuel tank
 
[ QUOTE ]
What really has me perplexed

[/ QUOTE ] I totally agree you would not expect any trouble from any source being stored in the way it was for a few months. My Evinrude will now stand for 6 or 7 months during the winter. It has been run in tank of fresh water and the basic servicing done but the carb will not be drained as I stop it after its run by fogging it out until it dies. (Normally during the season I run the carb dry.)

In the spring I get it out stick it in the tank again and it runs every year no bother after cleaning the fogging oil off the plugs.

Some so called summers (like the one we have just had) mine dangles on the back of the boat for nearly as long without any attention and without giving any trouble.


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Ok
lets run you thru this again, the main jet is the one that is dead central in the float chamber, carbs work in 3 or 4 stages, it uses the pilot "jet" drilling on the first stage, on a motorcycle it would then use the needle on the carb slide to regulate, then it would go to the main jet when there was enough throttle opening and air flow to pick up the fuel thru the main jet.
These small engines use a pilot drilling in the carb body to regulate the fuel flow then sometimes there is a secondary jet and then there is a main jet, which i would hazard a guess you have been reaming!!
look at the carb casting where the pilot mixture screw is and you should be able to see a thickening of the casting where the channel/drilling is. there will be a horizontal drilling from the opening/entrance of the carb just a tiny hole, DONT try to ream it but juducious use of stiff tooth brush bristles etc should be attempted, this drilling will be intercepted by a vertical drilling from the float chamber area. again judicious prodding.
Bottom line there is more than one JET and all the internal drillings should be clear.
good luck
if all else fails, send me a return flight ticket to Tampa and Ill come and fix it!!
Stu
 
if all else fails, send me a return flight ticket to Tampa and Ill come and fix it!!
Stu

LOL Maybe I'll bring it to you. It's been about 20 yrs since I've been on your side of the pond. /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif
Thanks for the info.
 
Was in Bradenton about 15 years ago, when kids were young. Used to work in Africa and Middle East, month on, month off, would come home and say to her indoors, come on, Florida here we come. Next day, off we would go. Loved it, lot quieter than Orlando and Kissimmee, and still love going to Busch Gardens, was there last year.
We stayed in some apts, condos I think they were, lots of Canadienes (spelt like that deliberate) were there, they were let out by a management company, cant recall the name. First day we were there, heard a Brit accent, and one of the staff called out a name, it was one familiar to me, my best mates dad had a friend, it was he, all that way to meet a man from the same small town as us1
Anyway keep looking, it will be something simple, and my guess is that it will be one of the internal channnels blocked
Stu
 
I work in the A/V industry with high end in house equipment mostly on Long Boat Key. It has amazed me the # of Brits I run into here. You guys must really enjoy the weather.
Got my first of 2 tattoos in Portsmouth in '86, (Navy of course) Loved it there, took the train all over.
Say, someone mentioned a few posts up, an exhaust leak. I know that exhaust can cause power problems. Reason I mention it is that from my vantage point, this carb seems brand new now. When I mentioned "reaming" the jet with a small wire I actually reffered to inserting a piece of wire in to it to see if anything came out. Nothing did. All jets are smooth and pass liquid freely (carb cleaner).
I fear that by now I am beating a dead horse with this becoming such a long thread so if I need to put it to bed I will and continue trying what I can. Regardless, I truly do appreciate all the responses and advice I am getting. Thanks so much to all.
 
Forget exhaust, red herring. Trust me!
change subject, brother in Royal navy, did his 22 years, ended up as fleet chief on polaris subs in faslane. He went to the falklands, maggie was deadly serious!!
stu
 
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