Foghorns - usability and effectiveness

[MoodySabre]

I went to watch my son and a mate do an Ironman two weeks ago and took my unused gas foghorn to make some noise. Blimey it is noisy but.....

I reckon 25/30 blasts nearly emptied the gas canister. Sailing in fog at 5 knots that wouldn't get you far. Would it be heard on the bridge of a ship?

I also have a trumpet type to blow but that is much quieter - perhaps not heard by the crew of a small coaster tucked up the doghouse with a cuppa. It takes a lot of blowing.

I've tried those short ones that you blow in the side of. Loud but also noisy in your own ear.

The type you pump up - how often do they need pumping up and how loud are they? Another job when short handed in fog.

Excluding electronic things, what works well for a long time and ,more importantly, what can be heard by the big things that might mow you down.

Has there been a mag group test lately and did they find out who could actually hear it? I know e rely on big boys seeing us on radar but we still have an obligation to give fog signals so they might as well be worthwhile.

 

[Monique]

I do not carry a foghorn.

However, I have a good radar reflector, my own FURUNO radar and Class B AIS. Not the same price class as any fog horn.

I think my solution is far more effective (opinion)

 

[JumbleDuck]

I reckon 25/30 blasts nearly emptied the gas canister. Sailing in fog at 5 knots that wouldn't get you far. Would it be heard on the bridge of a ship?

I've never heard a leisure foghorn used in anger - save for hooting at bridges on the Crinan Canal. My last foggy-ish trip was a crossing of the North Channel (the Scotland-Ireland one, not the England-Wight one) and although we met three other yachts and heard one large ship, there wasn't a toot, peep, whistle or bell out of any of them.

How foggy does it have to get before people start hooting?

 

[prv]

On Kindred Spirit we had one of those blow-in-the-side things, but without radar we didn't sail in fog so never used it. I took it on a sort of carnival-procession type street event once (where people bring all kinds of noise-making devices from football rattles to vuvuzelas) and it certainly drew a few surprised looks for its loudness despite being wrapped in a big pompom of purple tissue paper

On Ariam, the VHF includes a loudhailer which can automatically do the fog signals. It's not overly loud in the cockpit because the horn is pointed forwards; I'm not sure how loud it is in other directions as I've never wanted to test it in a busy marina where I can stand on the pontoons in various places . But this is what I'd have tooting away in fog because I don't have to worry about it, and can concentrate on the radar and AIS while my crew look and listen out.

As a backup, I have one of the pump-up horns. It's every bit as loud as a gas horn, possibly louder. Not sure how long it lasts as it came filled and I haven't run it down yet, but I'm assuming about as long as a gas cartridge.

I wouldn't expect ships to hear my horn on an enclosed bridge, or most trawlers over their own engine and machinery noise. But I'd expect those guys to be using radar, and to appear on mine, so we can avoid each other that way. The horn is for small (non-radar-equipped) yachts, small potting boats, etc.

Pete

 

[MoodySabre]

I do not carry a foghorn.

However, I have a good radar reflector, my own FURUNO radar and Class B AIS. Not the same price class as any fog horn.

I think my solution is far more effective (opinion)

So does this override colregs?

 

[AntarcticPilot]

So does this override colregs?

While I sympathize with the sentiment, I doubt very much if ANY sound signal we can make (or tolerate being near without hearing loss!) would be heard on the enclosed bridge of a commercial vessel, just as I doubt if any of the balls or cones we are enjoined to display would be distinguishable at a distance that would make any difference to a ship. If they are close enough to hear or see them, they are too close to do anything about them!

There's a wonderful account of sound signals in fog in Arthur Ransome's "Peter Duck"!

 

[James_Calvert]

... gas foghorn to make some noise...

I had a gas one once. Only made a decent sound when it wasn't damp....

Now I have a blow-in-a-hole-in-the-side one. You can alter the tone by adding a bit of piping to it; would be interesting to know if that made any difference to its audibility. Gets the noise a little further away from the ear anyway.

Edited: A few different lengths and we could also play at evading the Viper (Peter Duck reference).

 

[Elessar]

I do not carry a foghorn.

However, I have a good radar reflector, my own FURUNO radar and Class B AIS. Not the same price class as any fog horn.

I think my solution is far more effective (opinion)

So apart from not complying with the regs in reduced vis, how do you comply with the regs if you need to make a sound signal?

 

[Elessar]

I went to watch my son and a mate do an Ironman two weeks ago and took my unused gas foghorn to make some noise. Blimey it is noisy but.....

I reckon 25/30 blasts nearly emptied the gas canister. Sailing in fog at 5 knots that wouldn't get you far. Would it be heard on the bridge of a ship?

I also have a trumpet type to blow but that is much quieter - perhaps not heard by the crew of a small coaster tucked up the doghouse with a cuppa. It takes a lot of blowing.

I've tried those short ones that you blow in the side of. Loud but also noisy in your own ear.

The type you pump up - how often do they need pumping up and how loud are they? Another job when short handed in fog.

Excluding electronic things, what works well for a long time and ,more importantly, what can be heard by the big things that might mow you down.

Has there been a mag group test lately and did they find out who could actually hear it? I know e rely on big boys seeing us on radar but we still have an obligation to give fog signals so they might as well be worthwhile.

Twin horns mounted on the mast, pointing down, just above the fore stay. Red button at the helm. Silly gas thing if you want a backup.

 

[Mariner69]

.......I doubt very much if ANY sound signal we can make (or tolerate being near without hearing loss!) would be heard on the enclosed bridge of a commercial vessel.......... If they are close enough to hear or see them, they are too close to do anything about them!

Back in the early 80's on a Merchant Ship when Health & Safety was first making its appearance, the Second Engineer appeared on the bridge with a new piece of kit and had us sound the fog horn in bright daylight as he walked around with his device. He then declared that the sound was too loud ad we would have to wear ear defenders on the bridge when in fog.

It was a dismissible offence to ignore the safety orders.

Fog routine: Warn bridge team. Put on ear defenders. Sound fog horn for six seconds. Take off ear defenders to listen. Repeat at two minute intervals.

He never twigged that we also used the fog horn for manoeuvring sound signals; else we would have an even more complicated process. Imagine the helmsman trying to put ear defenders on each time when in hand steering.

Thankfully not too much fog but we did listen carefully from the bridge wing for other sounds.

 

[prv]

While I sympathize with the sentiment, I doubt very much if ANY sound signal we can make (or tolerate being near without hearing loss!) would be heard on the enclosed bridge of a commercial vessel

True, but there are other, smaller vessels with which I also do not want to collide.

Pete

 

[JumbleDuck]

So apart from not complying with the regs in reduced vis, how do you comply with the regs if you need to make a sound signal?

As a matter of interest, how reduced does visibility have to be to require sound signals? My google-fu has failed me. I have a red Plastimo mouth blown tooter, by the way, which did pretty well in Sailing Today tests.

 

[wongaero]

Mine's an electric one shaped like a computer mouse, fixed to the mast. I've only ever attempted two toots, one of those was a lonely 'parp' in a fog bank which I left with a quick course-reversal and the other was a failure when no toot came out.

Interestingly in taking it apart to replace the innards I found the manufacturers had sawn the moulded acoustic trumpet off a standard cheap marine horn in order to stuff it in a box which made it look like something that's not a horn. It must have sold for more I suppose. Strange though.

 

[MoodySabre]

As a matter of interest, how reduced does visibility have to be to require sound signals? My google-fu has failed me. I have a red Plastimo mouth blown tooter, by the way, which did pretty well in Sailing Today tests.

Fog in weather bulletins is vis under 1000 metres.

 

[JumbleDuck]

Fog in weather bulletins is vis under 1000 metres.

Thanks .. I'd forgotten that. Don't the IRPCS say "restricted visibility" rather than "fog", though?

 

[Monique]

So apart from not complying with the regs in reduced vis, how do you comply with the regs if you need to make a sound signal?

?

COLREGS were written when? My opinion ... the particular chapter dealing with making noises at sea is past their "best by date" and perhaps even irrelevant in this day and age. (I agree with colregs by the way...)

I prefer being proactive at detecting others than relying on a fog horn to be heard.

Not all regulations are appropriate.

 

[Storyline]

Agree that the disposable compressed air ones are not good for prolonged use so we have one where you pump a piston in a tube which has a horn similar to the canister ones. Quite effective. Last year we were caught on in really thick fog (one or two boat length vis) south of Islay on the way to Port Ellen. There was a steady stream of yachts and small boats making their way into and out of PE. Had them all on radar but found those making sound signals very useful. There was a discussion in our chandlers a few days later between some skippers about the fog that had been around for a few days and some people said the type that you fill with a bicycle type pump were difficult to use over a prolonged period.

 

[blackdogsailing]

In Ransomes 'We didn't mean to go to sea' when they are caught in fog, Roger is operating a stirrup pump type foghorn. I've often wondered whether my stirrup type dinghy pump could be adapted to fit a foghorn !

Chris

 

[prv]

Thanks .. I'd forgotten that. Don't the IRPCS say "restricted visibility" rather than "fog", though?

Yes, and slightly to my surprise they don't seem to define (even in the technical appendices) what distance counts as "restricted". The definition is simply

The term “restricted visibility” means any condition in which visibility is restricted by fog, mist, falling snow, heavy rainstorms, sandstorms or any other similar causes.

Presumably there's something about it in the expensive Cockcroft tome.

Pete

 

[prv]

In Ransomes 'We didn't mean to go to sea' when they are caught in fog, Roger is operating a stirrup pump type foghorn. I've often wondered whether my stirrup type dinghy pump could be adapted to fit a foghorn !

Probably very easily, actually.

I would pick one of the "blow in the side" type, as they seem to be loudest of the manual horns. Make up some sort of adaptor to strap over the hole and attach to the end of the pump hose, then hang it from the guardrail, sprayhood, etc and put the pump itself in a convenient place in the cockpit. Got to be one of the more effective arrangements for non-power-driven tooting.

One could even imagine a side-blow horn made specially with the hose fitting already moulded in place, and a hook or clamp for mounting.

Pete