Flying a flag

[lenten]

15 foot outboard powered open boat------if i motor to france do i have to be registered-?------if i trailer to france and launch do i have to be registered----slight thread drift but lots of mentions of registration in posts above -----thanks

 

[john_morris_uk]

15 foot outboard powered open boat------if i motor to france do i have to be registered-?------if i trailer to france and launch do i have to be registered----slight thread drift but lots of mentions of registration in posts above -----thanks

Yes you do. Part 3 (SSR) is very simple and cheap to do online so long as you’re a British citizen and live in the UK most of the time.

 

[Stemar]

Out of curiosity, what is the cut-off point for requiring registration to take a boat to Europe? An inflatable canoe with only paddles obviously doesn't (I hope!), but a motorboat on a trailer does. What about a sailing dinghy with a small outboard?

 

[john_morris_uk]

Out of curiosity, what is the cut-off point for requiring registration to take a boat to Europe? An inflatable canoe with only paddles obviously doesn't (I hope!), but a motorboat on a trailer does. What about a sailing dinghy with a small outboard?

I’d be interested to know that answer. I’d arbitrarily (and without justification) divided vessels into ‘passage making’ vs local dinghy playing. Lenten mentioned driving his speedboat to France; hence my assertion that IMHO it would need to be registered.

 

[Graham376]

I’d be interested to know that answer. I’d arbitrarily (and without justification) divided vessels into ‘passage making’ vs local dinghy playing. Lenten mentioned driving his speedboat to France; hence my assertion that IMHO it would need to be registered.

Even small inflatables only used for leisure fishing have to be registered in some (maybe all?) EU countries and those used as tenders must be marked with parent boat's name or need to have their own registration.

 

[Kukri]

I’ve often thought that the British citizen’s right to own a boat and to do as he pleases with her is rather like the American’s right to own a gun.

 

[snowbird30ds]

I’ve often thought that the British citizen’s right to own a boat and to do as he pleases with her is rather like the American’s right to own a gun.

But much more survivable.

 

[LittleSister]

Out of curiosity, what is the cut-off point for requiring registration to take a boat to Europe? An inflatable canoe with only paddles obviously doesn't (I hope!), but a motorboat on a trailer does. What about a sailing dinghy with a small outboard?

I’d be interested to know that answer. I’d arbitrarily (and without justification) divided vessels into ‘passage making’ vs local dinghy playing. Lenten mentioned driving his speedboat to France; hence my assertion that IMHO it would need to be registered.

There is (or was) a minimum length of, IIRC, 6m for UK SSR registration, though I couldn't find any reference to it just now with a quick look at the register website.

Years ago I was planning to take a 16' sea kayak to France, and pondered SSR registration to try to avoid any problems with French limits on taking 'beach toys' more than 'x' distance from coast, etc., and wondered about adding a bowsprit to bring it up to registerable length (though to further complicate matters the official MSA definition of length excludes bowsprits etc., I believe).

In the end that trip never happened, but more recently I took a 16' Canadian canoe to France, and received no attention at all from officialdom.

p.s. Just seen that SSR is now £35 for 5 years.

 

[andylipsberg]

ok. let's say I have a deregistered boat in Finland and I need to sail it to other EU country such as Latvia for registration. So what does the law say then?
the boat doesn't have a registration flag.

 

[Buck Turgidson]

ok. let's say I have a deregistered boat in Finland and I need to sail it to other EU country such as Latvia for registration. So what does the law say then?
the boat doesn't have a registration flag.

Do you have to sail it to Latvia to get Latvian reg?

 

[john_morris_uk]

ok. let's say I have a deregistered boat in Finland and I need to sail it to other EU country such as Latvia for registration. So what does the law say then?
the boat doesn't have a registration flag.

Are you Latvian? I’ve no idea what the Latvian regulations are for registering a boat.
If I am a British citizen and buy a boat somewhere in the world, my understanding is that so long as it’s not registered somewhere else, I fill in the forms online, submit the documents saying I own it etc, pay the fee and it’s registered. I don’t have to actually sail it to the UK. Why are you sailing it to Latvia? Is that in their rules?

 

[andylipsberg]

Do you have to sail it to Latvia to get Latvian reg?

yes, exactly. because the boat has to undergo the inspection. it has be psychically here. strange, but it is what it is.

 

[BabaYaga]

My understanding is that the flag should reflect the nationality of the owner of the ship, as a basic rule. Registration in another country may complicate things, but since this boat is currently not registered, it seems the general rule should apply.

 

[Tranona]

yes, exactly. because the boat has to undergo the inspection. it has be psychically here. strange, but it is what it is.

It is much the same for the UK Part 1, but the registry allows temporary registration until the inspection is made.

I had much the same problem when I bought a boat for delivery and use in Greece and be Greek registered. The dealer had it trucked to Slovenia then registered on the Austrian register before sailing it to Corfu where it was inspected and finally registered.

You may well find you can register it Poland for the delivery trip. Suggest you talk to yacht brokers or dealers in both Finland and Latvia as I am sure you will not be the first person to have this problem.

 

[Graham376]

My understanding is that the flag should reflect the nationality of the owner of the ship, as a basic rule.

That would be a reasonable assumption but not the case. Many people of various nationalities have boats on flag of convenience, often to avoid taxes or regulations in their home country.

 

[BabaYaga]

That would be a reasonable assumption but not the case. Many people of various nationalities have boats on flag of convenience, often to avoid taxes or regulations in their home country.

That may be so, but no circumstances of that kind were hinted by the OP. For a non registered boat on passage from Finland to Latvia a flag reflecting the nationality of owner seems adequate, in my view.

 

[Tranona]

That may be so, but no circumstances of that kind were hinted by the OP. For a non registered boat on passage from Finland to Latvia a flag reflecting the nationality of owner seems adequate, in my view.

Just flying a flag is only an indication of the nationality of the ship and normally further evidence is required. The usual evidence is a formal certificate of registration from the flag state. As already suggested this is not necessarily the country of citizenship of the owner or the skipper, although it often is. The OP can take a chance and just fly a flag while on passage and hope he is not challenged, but I guess given the volatile situation in that part of the Baltic it might not be a good idea.

 

[BabaYaga]

Just flying a flag is only an indication of the nationality of the ship and normally further evidence is required. The usual evidence is a formal certificate of registration from the flag state.

I certainly did not mean to suggest that flying any random flag would serve as proof of nationality.

As I read the OP, he owns a boat which is located in Finland and is deregistered (has been registered, but is no longer). Finland has compulsory registration of boats that are permanently used within the country and this applies whether the owner is a citizen or not. So my interpretation of the situation is that the boat has been deregistered because it has been sold (to the OP) and will be taken out of Finland (to Latvia, to be registered there).
So the question, which flag to fly during the passage?
According to (the website of) Traficom, the Finnish transports authority, a boat can only fly the Finnish flag if it is owned to at least 60 percent by a Finnish citizen. This applies even if the boat is registered in Finland (which the boat in question is not anymore).
So if the OP is Finnish, he can fly the Finnish flag during the trip. If he is not, it seems reasonable to me that he could fly the flag of his nationality.

 

[andylipsberg]

I certainly did not mean to suggest that flying any random flag would serve as proof of nationality.

As I read the OP, he owns a boat which is located in Finland and is deregistered (has been registered, but is no longer). Finland has compulsory registration of boats that are permanently used within the country and this applies whether the owner is a citizen or not. So my interpretation of the situation is that the boat has been deregistered because it has been sold (to the OP) and will be taken out of Finland (to Latvia, to be registered there).
So the question, which flag to fly during the passage?
According to (the website of) Traficom, the Finnish transports authority, a boat can only fly the Finnish flag if it is owned to at least 60 percent by a Finnish citizen. This applies even if the boat is registered in Finland (which the boat in question is not anymore).
So if the OP is Finnish, he can fly the Finnish flag during the trip. If he is not, it seems reasonable to me that he could fly the flag of his nationality.

that makes total sense to me.

 

[Tranona]

So if the OP is Finnish, he can fly the Finnish flag during the trip. If he is not, it seems reasonable to me that he could fly the flag of his nationality.

Just flying the flag as I pointed out is only an indicator of the nationality of the ship. It is the registration document that is the proof.. The OP needs to speak to his register about temporary registration (as you can in the UK) if possible, or register in another state for the delivery trip. Better to take advice from people who deal with this sort of issue such as local dealers or yacht brokers. sure he is not the first person who has this problem.