Flotilla - easiest route to qualification

[ylop]

SWMBO has a notion to do a flotilla holiday next year, most likely for 1 week in early July, and ideally (for me) in Croatia as its an area I fancy visiting. So other than finding the funds to achieve this it sounds like a good idea.

I know that years ago almost no qualifications were required for this sort of trip, but that now the owners of very expensive boats have woken up to this risk. So here is a quick resume:

- Dinghy sailing experience, on and off for 25+ years. Including cruising dinghies, anchoring, passage planning etc (in the days before GPS too!).
- Powerboat experience over a similar period, but particularly in the last 10 yrs. Including RYA PB2 / ICC*. Cruising relatively long distances over several days, experience in marinas, anchoring, passage planning. Driving boats from 4-11m. Mostly outboard/sterndrive stuff - but way back I did some displacement stuff with shaft drive and rudder.
- Dayskipper THEORY.
- VHF SRC Certificate.
- A couple of days on a yacht as crew about 18 years ago.

* That ICC is for power driven vessels, so I presume not what is needed here.

Research suggest that most places will be looking for Dayskipper Practical / ICC. Now looking at Dayskipper it is a 5 day course. In contrast the ICC is less than a day "test". Now, I've looked at the ICC syllabus and am confident I could pass it in a powerboat or a wayfarer sized boat just by turning up - but realise that a 35ft yacht might need some practice. However I would hope it doesn't need 5 days of practice. Are there options to either accelerate Dayskipper for people who can sail and passage plan, but just need to deal with the scale? or do schools regularly run 1 days "ICC refresher" type training before the ICC exam?

A perfect solution is probably a 2 week holiday with the first week under instruction. However even if funds allow I am not sure SWMBO and I are ready for 14 days in such a confined space with the kids! Talking of which they will be 9 and 13 and both have some dinghy experience, and a little playing in powerboats. SWMBO on the other hand likes the journey/destination part of boating but has never shown much inclination towards the learning part. If I thought she would embrace the learning part then I might just go for instruction for the week.

Anyone got any experience to share:

• what are the essential qualifications?
• best (easiest) way to get the relevant qualifications?
• Any specific skills that I should be focussing on outside of just getting the right certificate?
• Any particularly good companies to go with in this situation?
• Any particularly good locations/boats etc (or ones to avoid)?
• For a little "comfort" are a family of 4 really looking at a 6 berth boat?

Oh, and finally two members of the party are Coeliac, so unable to eat Wheat without consequences that would be most unpleasant on an enclosed Yacht! We've had good experiences finding GF food in Italy, does anyone have any comments on that in Croatia or Greece? and is it likely to be complicate being part of the flotilla?

Thanks in advance...

 

[TallBuoy]

Several schools will provide you with a five day ICC course, which includes an assessment on the last day.

You could go straight for the one day assessment, there will be others on the boat, and you will be expected to sail a triangular course (i.e. including gybes), MOB recovery, leaving and coming alongside a pontoon. If you haven't done any of this before you will struggle. You could do a one day practice, but it will cost you to pay for the whole boat and the full cost of the instructor.

If you are going to spend five days on a course you might as well do the Day Skipper Practical, then get your ICC from the RYA.

Sunsail at Port Solent offer all the options, because they provide training, including a Flotilla Preparation weekend, for many people going on their holidays. If you can sail successfully on one of their boats in Portsmouth Harbour and the Solent, a flotilla in the Med is a piece of cake by comparison!

With the children being the age they are, you should have a great time, and yes you need a 6 berth boat, especially in the heat of summer.

You buy your own food on the flotilla, so have whatever you want. The lead boat organises a local restaurant or taverna meal on some evenings, but these are not compulsory - it really is a case of doing whatever you want to do.

Edit: there is no way of fast tracking Day Skipper practical - you have to complete the syllabus to satisfy the instructor you are safe and competent.

 

[Tranona]

In Croatia an ICC will be essential. Suspect they would not notice the difference between a power and sail - but you need to check with the operator. However you may do better in the Ionian as pretty sure Sailing Holidays would accept the combination of your ICC and experience - you would be more experienced than many!

 

[Uricanejack]

looks to me like you meet all the requirements already. Of course my opinion doesn't mean much.
Best thing to do is contact the flotilla company tell them and send copies of your stuff and ask if good enough.

Sailboats today are just single screw powerboats with a big stick in the middle.
your powerboat knowledge will get you in and out the dock. keep you safe.
I you feel like using the sails.
You already know how to sail.

There was a thread on the PBO forum about an ex MN guy.
He just did a one day with an instructor who had some common sense and tailored things to his needs.

Sailing is easy and fun, Just another means of propulsion.

 

[macd]

However you may do better in the Ionian as pretty sure Sailing Holidays would accept the combination of your ICC and experience - you would be more experienced than many!

Too true. But the principal qualification required for the Ioanian in July (and probably for Croatia, too) is fluency in Italian swearing. June might be a tad more restful.

 

[RichardS]

Not wishing to be argumentative but in my experience over 10 years in Croatia, as long as you have nice certificate with RYA emblazoned across it the Croatians will not be bothered whether it is classroom (like mine) or practical.

Richard

 

[[163233]]

Neilson used to do a stay sail in the Ionian one week training (from zero experience), and one week flotilla that didn't result in an ICC or DS - think it was a keelboat level 2 - if they're still doing that then you probably don't need an ICC there for their flotillas.

As you're not exactly green, your best bet is to call them up and ask them what they think.

 

[calsdv]

My husband was exactly in your position many years ago. He went and did his Day Skipper in the end in the UK, and subsequently we have had many fabulous charter holidays (Croatia and Greece). We started on the traditional flotilla holidays (Sunsail) then went bareboat (Nisos Yacht Charter in the Ionian). Now the kids are coming along with us, we go on the Assisted Bareboat Charter holidays with Nisos Yacht Charter. It is a great halfway house between bareboat sailing and the traditional flotillas.

In my opinion the Ionian is probably the best place for you to head for with the family. The distances between islands are short and it is perfect for a great family holiday. Croatia is wonderful, but we find the distances are a bit long for the kids (7, 9, 10) and the harbours are more "official" with mooring fees and lots of paperwork. The Ionian in contrast is very relaxed, with mostly no mooring fees and no paperwork to deal with at all.

I'm pretty sure in Greece it is Greek Law that the skipper of the boat holds a practical sailing qualification, so RYA Day Skipper or an ICC (sail) and any decent operator will insist on seeing it. This goes for flotilla sailing or bareboat.

I think Sailing Holidays are the only flotilla company these days that accept no qualifications (don't know how they do it, but I wouldn't like to get involved in an incident involving Greek Port Police, when the first thing they always ask for is the skippers qualifications).

So - I would for sure make sure you have a qualification. It sounds like the ICC is your best route and I would book myself on a Sunsail ICC assessment in the Solent, with a couple of days refresher course before hand. Speak to them and see what they suggest/can offer.

I wouldn't go and do it on holiday - get it done before you go and that way you and the family can enjoy the holiday to the max.

My sister came with us to Greece a few years back and she is also Coeliac. The nice lady at Nisos gave us a printed card in Greek to show at the tavernas, and we had no problems at all.

One other bit of advice, is to try and get your partner/kids a bit of experience before you head out. Competent Crew for example. It really does help, especially when it comes to the stern to mooring fun in the evenings! It helps keep the stress levels down if you have some helpful hands on board.

Hope that helps!

 

[ylop]

Tallbuoy, calsdv, JBJag27, RichardS, macd, UricaneJack, Tranona, thank you all for your input.

I did see some stuff that implies ICC Power or even Dayskipper Theory might be sufficient to tick the Croatian officialdom box, but I figured that something had been badly translated and didn't fancy arriving and having an argument with an official in a foreign language.

The good news is my Italian swearing is not bad, so I might be fine in the Ionian! I'll check our Sailing Holidays and see if they have any official guidance, and then give a few places a call. I'll take a look at "assisted bareboat too". I do prefer the idea of getting the qual sorted before hand, but I suspect this may give Mrs ylop the cop-out of not learning and then being "behind the curve" whereas some "on the spot" training would get her involved better.

You could go straight for the one day assessment, there will be others on the boat, and you will be expected to sail a triangular course (i.e. including gybes), MOB recovery, leaving and coming alongside a pontoon. If you haven't done any of this before you will struggle. You could do a one day practice, but it will cost you to pay for the whole boat and the full cost of the instructor.

I can confidently do all that in a small sailing boat, or a powerboat (up to 11m). Presumably you don't come alongside the pontoon under sail? Anyway I wouldn't jump in a 30+ft boat and expect to pass the ICC, which is why I thought a "refresher" would be a wise way of scaling up. I'm not rolling in cash, but I'm less concerned about the cost of the training as to the time commitment, and I certainly don't want to spend 2/3rd of the time watching other people fluffing maneuvers. I guess that's why I'd expect a 5 day course to be condensable if 1:1, and some prior knowledge. Still I can understand why the RYA will insist on minimum times too.
Read more at http://www.ybw.com/forums/showthrea...st-route-to-qualification#BFVSb6Qm2KgwSSK0.99

 

[TallBuoy]

I can confidently do all that in a small sailing boat, or a powerboat (up to 11m). Presumably you don't come alongside the pontoon under sail? Anyway I wouldn't jump in a 30+ft boat and expect to pass the ICC, which is why I thought a "refresher" would be a wise way of scaling up. I'm not rolling in cash, but I'm less concerned about the cost of the training as to the time commitment, and I certainly don't want to spend 2/3rd of the time watching other people fluffing maneuvers. I guess that's why I'd expect a 5 day course to be condensable if 1:1, and some prior knowledge.

No need to come alongside a pontoon under sail.

You can't do a Day Skipper course 1:1 because you need crew to work for you as the skipper. You do the same for them. Also you learn from each other's experience and some of the content is discussed as a group. (Edit: Most schools mix DS and Comp Crew students on a boat, so you might be the only DS, or one of two so you get more 'skipper time. Maybe Mrs ylop would like to do CC at the same time, so she gets involved.)

Secondly, the course requires 100 miles to be completed, including four hours at night.

Finally, the best Day Skippers already have some prior knowledge and experience, those without struggle the most and so they should. At the end of the course, they are supposed to be competent to skipper a boat, (in local waters by day).

If all you want to do is go on holiday in the Med, go for the ICC. It will be easier and quicker, but won't do you any good in the UK. If you want to complete a more comprehensive course, go for Day Skipper which will enable you to charter in the UK if you ever wish to do so, and the ICC is a simple paperwork exercise.

Or do what lots of others have done in the past, go on holiday with no practice or experience and let the Flotilla Lead Boat supervise you more closely (if you can find a company to take you).

 

[Uricanejack]

I don't understand the logic in the above comment.
Why would an ICC done in the UK administered by the RYA be of no use in the UK. The UK requires no certification so it may not be required. This does not mean its no use. It does show a recognised level of knowledge and practical ability. It is a recognised certificate.
The day skipper may be more impressive, but entirely voluntary and not required to skipper a boat in the UK or to Charter.
A sailing resume will do. with no certification of any kind.
A charter company can certainly ask for more and insist a Day Skipper as the minimum if they wish.

By all means do a Day Skipper if you have the time. I am sure it would be both enjoyable and contain valuable knowledge you may otherwise miss.